Originally Posted by Skybird

How pathetic. You are in total ignorration of Georgia's and Shaakashvi8li'S share of guilt in this. Being a demoicratically elected president eventually does not save you from being an ultra-nationalistic gangster who opens fire at sleeping civilians at night under the protection of the Olympic ceremonies. the ruzssians may not be saints, but they are not guilty of this 5-day-war - the Georgians asked for it. And now you complain that the russians did not accept to play the weak and defeated, but reacted with the force needed to secure that the agressor was taught the lesson that he deserved and that Russia would turn this surprise attack into an undisputed victory? do you expect them to behave silly?

anyhow, this is purely academic now, since history already has decided the war at hand, and created new facts people have to live with - wether they like them, or not. Sometimes you catch the bear, and sometimes the bear catches you. This time the bear did everything correct and secured this round for himself. If westerners don'T like it, they have to adjust their policies and make sure that they fulfill preconditions in time, that must be set in order to win the next time. Compared to what happened, both the US and Europe reacted relatively calm and restrainful. I think in the Wetsern capitals it was clear from the very beginning that the Russians would and could not afford this provocation to succeed uncountered, and that there was no sense in trying to confront the Russian in their own backyard. as the german essay I linked just said, some things you simply do not even try: like challenging the US in their own backyard that is middle america, or the Russian in their former southern soviet provinces which are part of their backyard. After all is said and done, what remains is the conclusion that shaakashvili acted with maximum stupidity and irresponsibility. Since credits for the mess are his, any complaints go to his office, please.

This week's lesson: if you are the inferior and weak dwarf, then you do not provoke wars against a superior military giant, but try to avoid right this. Also, Russian-NATO relations have changed. The russians demonstrated that they have had enough. It also means that well-meaning european diplomats trying to be cosy and gentle on the russians will need to rethink their perceptions of the russians. russia after all is a major power with teeth to bite, and enough detemrination to use its economic potentials to maximum own advantage. well-meaningly hoping that they will not make use of the strong position in supplying europe with energy, is absilutely inadequate. we need to become indepedent from russian oil and gas, like we need to become independent from Muhammeddan oil as well. Two good reason to change our economy NOW and not to wait until the barrel oil costs 400 dollars.

Ukraine in NATO? Since this has been ever brought up years ago, I was against it. I do not wish NATO to sneak upon russian borders like that. You obviously still do not realise it, but that is totally unacceptable for russia. Oh boy, some people seem to thinik it is a virtue in itself to provoke the russians as m uczh as is possible - no matter at what costs. Have these minds no sense of reason in them? Why are the russians expected to accept what NATO or America never, never would accept in return?

Ah, hopeless debate.