[PsFr]

Originally Posted by moscowexile

Indeed, the defeated Germany of 1918 was in a far stronger position than any of its "victorious" wartime adversaries: Britain was near bankrupt and eventually had to default on its war debts to the USA; France had not only been "bled white" because of the carnage that had taken place on its territory, but the major battles fought in France, having also largely taken place in the industrial regions of the French Republic, had laid those regions waste; the Russian Empire no longer existed and was being torn apart by civil war;

That's what Hitler and NSDAP was spreading after the war along some German military supporting his political ideas or very conservatives ones who could not accept the outcome of this war , but it is world widely recognized by historians today as a legend (the theory claiming they never lost the war ) , including the German historians themselves , though you've made some quality posts with lots of good points in this thread so i'd like to kindly add few things on this if you don't mind

Of course , Most European countries involved in the Great War were heavily debted , and in the case of France , the northern region of France had been partly destroyed , villages burnt , lot of deaths ( killed , diseases , lack of food etc ) , lot of rapes (esp in Belgium and northern France ) etc... however the industry was still perfectly functionnal for the simple reason that it's the one who could handle the war effort (planes , light tanks , engines , rifles , canons , ammos etc..) for France , Canadians and US pilots etc.. during 4 years and was not located in the north of France (only a small part , north of France was mostly mines/coal region )

But from a military perspective , and there is a couple of books written about it (best and most famous being the one of J.P Jardin ) , Imperial German army was completely on its knees in 1918 , after repeated failed (desperate for some ) offensives prior to March 1918 that cost a lot of lives .. not only physically , but the moral of its front troops was Extremely low (lower than Allies by very Far ) and the front lines were deeply affected , the defeat was inevitable at that point for many German officers , the French wanted to continue the offensive and invade Germany in 1918 which was refused categorically by Britain who wanted a Germany strong enough to rival France in the future but not strong enough to be a threat to Britain (this has always been an important aspect of British policy since 18th century ) and also because the British had no direct interest in doing that , they also had lost many men and money in this war and were contempt with an armistice where Germany would be disarmed , weakened economically (in order to not dominate Britain ) and reshaped politically

In this war , Germany had also suffered a lot casualties ,( about 8 millions victims and deaths like Russia , France more than 6.5 millions , Austria-Hungary a bit more than 4 millions , Britain about 3 millions etc..) and was in very bad shape in 1918 , the Allies in 1918 were on streak victories ( Second Battle of the Somme named "blackest day" by Ludendorff in Spring 1918 by British/Australians/Canadians , then France's Army after the victory at second Battle of La Marne in Summer 1918 , then the offensive in Picardie made by the Allies in general including US troops left the Germans retreating in August , the September offensive being the most effective with Germans lines completely collapsing and going back to defend German borders , the morale of Allies was higher , the industry was producing more and more materials etc.. , the exhaustion of the population was compensated by the signs of victory and Germans retreating which gave a lot of energy and determination to the people to work harder , support their suffering and believe .

for example at the same period , France's democratic republic vote in October a law for budget (Borrow for Victory /Emprunt de la victoire ) , the country was ready to fight for at least 1 more year , but then that revolution in the German Empire that started the 3 november 1918 which culminated the 9th November at Berlin and lead to the abdication of Kaiser Wilhelm II, this changed the situation in the eyes of the Allies as Imperial Germany was no more and its aggressive leader no more a threat , thus armistice was signed the 11th of November 1918 to the relief of European civilians , in the case of France people were relieved but the Military were definitely not satisfied as leaving the German territory untouched and suddenly stopping the war at the border after all the destructions , deaths , rapes and mayhem caused by German troops in France for 4 years was a major mistake to make and difficult to accept , especially since they had the definite upper hand (first time of the war one side had such a big advantage on another ) and felt the job had to be finished until Berlin , and history proved them right in 1940 (and hence why the controversial articles Treaty of Versailles in 1919 should be looked upon through this scope , the German people suffered no direct consequences on their territory after invading , killing millions of people etc. ) as if Germany would have been invaded we can speculate that WWII could not have happened

At the time a couple of German military officers do not want to accept the obvious reality of defeat until the army and country is completely destroyed and Germany invaded which is understandable but something that would have 100% surely happened had the Allies continued the war , the NSDAP is going to use that argument in the 20's claiming they never lost that war as Germany wasn't invaded and conqueered , which is a "mistake" the Soviet Union and Western Allies did not do in 1945 (and it costed lots of German civilians lives sadly ) as they had the good "lesson" of 1918 when Allies stopped fighting at the German border .

NSDAP will use this theory against Weimar Republic and democratic parties in the 20's to disqualify the new Republic , telling them that the revolution , the civilian (society) and Weimar are responsible of the defeat and betrayed the troops , that the German democratic government had been born in the defeat , labelling people supporting a democratic Germany "traitors" to the country , for them social-democracy was doomed and born in failure and only national-socialism could restore their pride (they were somewhat right since a military dictature and totalitarian regime devoting all of its material and human ressources to waging war is always going to be stronger militarily or more suited in times of war than a democracy , a war that happened later on) , NSDAP blamed the civilians and democrats (Jews too ) for causing the defeat , for them , German army could still fight on and win the war and it's because of the civilians looking for "compromises" that Imperial Germany was defeated , but today it is proven wrong completely by historians and no longer credible at all with the archives and books about the subject , it was a good theory to promote his political project though , very effective as at the time , as no one could verify that and most Germans believed him later on .

It's correct to say though that the industrial heart of Germany and territorial integrity was left untouched thanks the fact that the Allies decided stop at the German borders for political and economical reason , so Germany was in relatively better shape than some of his former ennemies to get over the losses and disasters that has been WWI and bounce again in the future , as even after WWI , German population is still 20 millions of people more than France and still retained a formidable industry and more human ressources after the armistice of 1918 and never paid the so-called unfair debts of Versailles treaty afterwards . I apologize for my English mistakes

To answer briefly the topic , it's cause many ships were scuttled , some others were used to join the British , some others were destroyed at Mers-el -Kebir , then many stayed loyal to the hierarchy , and the main reason was because it would have took lot of money and time to train and form sailors on new equipment or reequip the ships with German materials etc.. and also because KM was not in position to do anything in the Med with surfaced ships and prior to late 1941 and 1942 , KM based its strategy on U-Boats (Bismarck sunk in 41 etc..)