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Skybird · 07-24-08, 01:15 PM

that was it, the speech has been delivered. Against my usual habit to simply ignore politicians and their oh so precious speeches, I watched it from beginning to end. berlin police said there has been an audience of 215.000. There are 12.000 Americans living in Berlin.

I think it was an extremely clever speech, and he hit the right tone. Of course - I remain to be a realist, and politicians and speeches... you know the story.

But i would say this: McCain should not complain that the media do not like him so much, in handling the media and afdressing people, Obama is so much more intelligent than McCain, despite McCain's reputation of having free, liberal relations to the press. Then the difference between Obama in Berlin, and bush duing his foreign visits - holding a little speech at a handselected audience of sworn in militaries - now compare how easily Obama won the sympathies of the crowds and how relaxed he handled them afterwards! That is worlds apart.

I would say this: Obama expressed a lot of those things that I aolso, here and there in various threads expressed to be desirable in the relations between America, and europe. IF he would get elected, and IF he would turn out to be a president who really acts like he talks, and puts his deeds to where his speech was leading, it could turn out to be a very good presidency for america, and a better, though more mutually demanding relation between the Us, and Europe.

IF. We need to wait and learn what will come of that IF.

I just wonder if all German really understood that on certain issues like Iran he indicated that he has no intention to adapt the european way of doing, and that his stressing of mutual partnership includes the Europeans and namely germany to invest more - last but not least into the military factor. Foreign minister Steinmeier always speaks slow and tired like an old grandfather, but today's news item after he met Obama showed him commenting with a voice that sounded even for his standards somewhat bewildered or disillusioned to me. I think many people in the governemnt and especially in the SPD party will need to learn that just because Obama is not Bush this does not mean that he plans to all-embrace the SPD's unrealistic visions and diplomatic ways of dealing questions of foreign policies.

the worstening of relations in the past eight years, has been the responsibility of a stupid, unknowing and unsensible George bush. I start to think that if Obama becomes president, and if - against the current expectations - relations will not improve and partnership will not become as far-reaching as Obama has outlined - this time it will not be america's fault, but the fault of a Germany that in this case would prove to be too unflexible and unrealistical in it's assessment of what it can expect america to be like - and what not. at the next NATO meeting Spring 2009, germany better has learned to see that difference, else we will start to suffer the same mockery and lacking understanding that has been enjoyed by America and George bush in the past eight years.

and we should not repeat the mistakes of Georgie who gave us so much opportunity to laugh and curse - which only means we understood these to be mistakes indeed. we would be even greater fools then, if repeating them in his place, knowingly.

Thanks for paying a visit, senator. I'm not your fan, but I enjoyed your presence nevertheless. And that is a million times more positive than what I have said about Bush's two Germany visits.

07-24-08, 01:15 PM	#15
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,709 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	that was it, the speech has been delivered. Against my usual habit to simply ignore politicians and their oh so precious speeches, I watched it from beginning to end. berlin police said there has been an audience of 215.000. There are 12.000 Americans living in Berlin. I think it was an extremely clever speech, and he hit the right tone. Of course - I remain to be a realist, and politicians and speeches... you know the story. But i would say this: McCain should not complain that the media do not like him so much, in handling the media and afdressing people, Obama is so much more intelligent than McCain, despite McCain's reputation of having free, liberal relations to the press. Then the difference between Obama in Berlin, and bush duing his foreign visits - holding a little speech at a handselected audience of sworn in militaries - now compare how easily Obama won the sympathies of the crowds and how relaxed he handled them afterwards! That is worlds apart. I would say this: Obama expressed a lot of those things that I aolso, here and there in various threads expressed to be desirable in the relations between America, and europe. IF he would get elected, and IF he would turn out to be a president who really acts like he talks, and puts his deeds to where his speech was leading, it could turn out to be a very good presidency for america, and a better, though more mutually demanding relation between the Us, and Europe. IF. We need to wait and learn what will come of that IF. I just wonder if all German really understood that on certain issues like Iran he indicated that he has no intention to adapt the european way of doing, and that his stressing of mutual partnership includes the Europeans and namely germany to invest more - last but not least into the military factor. Foreign minister Steinmeier always speaks slow and tired like an old grandfather, but today's news item after he met Obama showed him commenting with a voice that sounded even for his standards somewhat bewildered or disillusioned to me. I think many people in the governemnt and especially in the SPD party will need to learn that just because Obama is not Bush this does not mean that he plans to all-embrace the SPD's unrealistic visions and diplomatic ways of dealing questions of foreign policies. the worstening of relations in the past eight years, has been the responsibility of a stupid, unknowing and unsensible George bush. I start to think that if Obama becomes president, and if - against the current expectations - relations will not improve and partnership will not become as far-reaching as Obama has outlined - this time it will not be america's fault, but the fault of a Germany that in this case would prove to be too unflexible and unrealistical in it's assessment of what it can expect america to be like - and what not. at the next NATO meeting Spring 2009, germany better has learned to see that difference, else we will start to suffer the same mockery and lacking understanding that has been enjoyed by America and George bush in the past eight years. and we should not repeat the mistakes of Georgie who gave us so much opportunity to laugh and curse - which only means we understood these to be mistakes indeed. we would be even greater fools then, if repeating them in his place, knowingly. Thanks for paying a visit, senator. I'm not your fan, but I enjoyed your presence nevertheless. And that is a million times more positive than what I have said about Bush's two Germany visits. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.