SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - US vs. German subs

Catfish · 07-07-08, 03:00 AM

Hello,
while there seems to have been no detector for the radiance caused by radar-detecting equipment like the Metox or the later devices, there certainly was for active radar. Don't know why the japanese should not have had and used it against US submarines ?
Even if it was feared by german commanders that the unwanted radiance of radar detecting devices gave away their position i think there never really was any such device on the allied side that would have been able - or was there ? - anyone ?

Regarding "which boat was the best": apples and onions, yes. And the radar equipped fleet boat with the late electro-mechanical targeting computer was not present until the late war, as well as the IX DII or the XXI type with their food freezers and the automatical target computer using sonar for a firing solution, with which torpedoes could be fired at a depth of 50 meters.

As it was said the manufacturing quality of the XXI type was bad, which is certainly true, but the computed theoretical crush depth was at 330 meters, or almost 1000 feet - operational depth was some 220 meters, or 660 feet, which was reached by all operational XXI types. Even some VIIC boats have reportedly dived to more than 300 meters as well, if not always intentional...
The real Walter boats with their hydrogen-superoxyde AIP propulsion also were very advanced, but not ripe for operational status, and there certainly were problems with the fuel needed for the turbines (difficult to produce and handle). One major advantage anyhow was the silence of the Walter boats, they would not be heard by hydrophones even at a speed of 15 knots submerged, top speed of the V80 (Versuch=trial) was a noisy 28+ knots submerged, as it was again tested after the war. Would this really be the "best boat" ?

Then the german doctrine of the U-boat war was a bit antiquated - the "new" type VII U-boats had basically the properties of the WW1 ones - diving max. depths as well as reliability were better, but speed surfaced and submerged was not. The type VII was intended to attack surfaced with the "Schnellboot-Taktik", or even stop and sink merchants with the deck gun following prize regulation, like in WW1. The total or unrestricted u-boat war was not so self-evident at the beginning of the hostilities.
At first this tactic worked out well, boats attacking surfaced at speeds of 18 knots could outrun early escorts, and merchants, and the praised hydrophones and ASDIC were useless against ships attacking surfaced. It was not before the boats were forced to dive, that ASW ships gained a real advantage.

Concerning equipment and "comfort" (lol) i would prefer a late Gato or Balao (if only because of the ice cream feature), but as soon as it gets to diving ... try to survive a british ASW group in a low-diving fleet boat with its max depth of 400 feet/130 meters in the Atlantic ocean ... I often wondered why US boats did have no greater diving depth ?

IMHO the scenario in which the boat is to be used, and at which time, would be the main argument - which has certainly be said before somewhere, and why i will stop here

.

Greetings,
Catfish

07-07-08, 03:00 AM	#22
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,801 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, while there seems to have been no detector for the radiance caused by radar-detecting equipment like the Metox or the later devices, there certainly was for active radar. Don't know why the japanese should not have had and used it against US submarines ? Even if it was feared by german commanders that the unwanted radiance of radar detecting devices gave away their position i think there never really was any such device on the allied side that would have been able - or was there ? - anyone ? Regarding "which boat was the best": apples and onions, yes. And the radar equipped fleet boat with the late electro-mechanical targeting computer was not present until the late war, as well as the IX DII or the XXI type with their food freezers and the automatical target computer using sonar for a firing solution, with which torpedoes could be fired at a depth of 50 meters. As it was said the manufacturing quality of the XXI type was bad, which is certainly true, but the computed theoretical crush depth was at 330 meters, or almost 1000 feet - operational depth was some 220 meters, or 660 feet, which was reached by all operational XXI types. Even some VIIC boats have reportedly dived to more than 300 meters as well, if not always intentional... The real Walter boats with their hydrogen-superoxyde AIP propulsion also were very advanced, but not ripe for operational status, and there certainly were problems with the fuel needed for the turbines (difficult to produce and handle). One major advantage anyhow was the silence of the Walter boats, they would not be heard by hydrophones even at a speed of 15 knots submerged, top speed of the V80 (Versuch=trial) was a noisy 28+ knots submerged, as it was again tested after the war. Would this really be the "best boat" ? Then the german doctrine of the U-boat war was a bit antiquated - the "new" type VII U-boats had basically the properties of the WW1 ones - diving max. depths as well as reliability were better, but speed surfaced and submerged was not. The type VII was intended to attack surfaced with the "Schnellboot-Taktik", or even stop and sink merchants with the deck gun following prize regulation, like in WW1. The total or unrestricted u-boat war was not so self-evident at the beginning of the hostilities. At first this tactic worked out well, boats attacking surfaced at speeds of 18 knots could outrun early escorts, and merchants, and the praised hydrophones and ASDIC were useless against ships attacking surfaced. It was not before the boats were forced to dive, that ASW ships gained a real advantage. Concerning equipment and "comfort" (lol) i would prefer a late Gato or Balao (if only because of the ice cream feature), but as soon as it gets to diving ... try to survive a british ASW group in a low-diving fleet boat with its max depth of 400 feet/130 meters in the Atlantic ocean ... I often wondered why US boats did have no greater diving depth ? IMHO the scenario in which the boat is to be used, and at which time, would be the main argument - which has certainly be said before somewhere, and why i will stop here . Greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 07-07-08 at 03:11 AM.