[Sailor Steve]

Well, in one sense PD did cover my actual attitude pretty well. Arguing against what someone says is not a personal attack - would you rather have me ignore what you say and call you names? I'm saying that your logic is flawed because you use the reverse of how the law works (at least to my mind). An example:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You butchered what I was trying to say. To start making laws that allow people to marry goats, or same sex marriages, polygamy, or incest is not the states business - period.

We create laws to protect us from each other, not to determine lifestyles. You say it's not the state's business to make laws ALLOWING people to do what they want. The reality is that we have had laws FORBIDDING people to make their own choices. You say it's not the state's business to allow freedom, and then you post lists of the freedoms we have. I say all freedom is to the people; you are the one who wants to deny them if they don't agree with your specific moral code.

Goats: animals can't speak, they can't express desire or displeasure in moral realms, so no, cross-species marriage is impossible.

Same-sex: no, I'm not gay. I find the very idea of anal sex repugnant. That said, what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business, nor yours. If they want to partake in the same social contract that others enjoy, who are you to deny them?

Polygamy: That problem is being tested more and more. Who knows where it will end? I like Mark Twain's observation: When asked to quote a scripture forbidding polygamy, Twain replied "Certainly - No man can serve two masters."

Incest: where do you draw the line? Some societies allow first cousins to marry; others do not. The true taboo seems to stem from early observations of deformaties and brain problems. So, is the taboo on incest because it's morally wrong or because it produces physical problems? I don't pretend to know the answer to that one.

All of those listed are along the same lines. You don't see male bears humping other male bears in the woods!

Actually, you do. That kind of behaviour has been observed in most species of mammals. I've seen cats do it. It's there, it's real.

How backwards have both of you become?

Hard to tell. I used to be a devout believer, but I've become more of a skeptic lately. And no, I'm not an athiest. Not even sure I could call myself agnostic. Deist?

And to add further insult to injury, the people don't want it! Period! The people voted it down! Some activist judge comes along and over-turns the will of the people? Hello?

This is a case of the few saying that the will of the people doesn't matter. Period.

That's a reasonable argument, but the Declaration and the Bill of Rights guarantee everyone the same freedoms. You talk about constitutionalism, but you still insist on denying freedom to those who disagree. If they took a vote tomorrow and found that the majority wanted to get rid of the Second Amendment, would you agree?

And quit cherry picking only one part.

Sorry, but you cover a lot of different points. It's impossible to affirm or deny them as a whole. Each one has to be taken on its own merits.