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Old 03-23-08, 10:16 PM   #8
Tessa
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CG 96
Posts: 861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajcev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey
VIIC can go deeper, and it crash dives faster than the VIIB. Also the VIIC has more options for upgrade, particularly with conning towers.
I never had a need to go very deep in 1940 or 1941. The maximum depth I went to was about ~60m before I learnt how to sink destroyers effectively. Now sinking ~6 destroyers is not a problem at all, and I don't need to go deeper than 25m.
Despite the upgrades I still really like the VIIB, its small, agile, has a good diving speed, and carries the same torpedo load as the VIIC. Some of the most infamous feats like Prien's sinking the Royal Oak, and Kretschmer's tonnage record were both done using type VIIB's. Some of the most famous boats were VIIB's - U47, U48, and U99. Underwater batteries last longer too, which will become a major factor (even in the stock game) around mid 1943 as aircraft start to become a major problem. While the VIIC is undoubtedly the workhorse, personally I prefer to wait till the VIIC/41 becomes available (or type XXI if I've got enough reknown at the time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajcev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey
Which gives you better defence against aircraft, however, aircraft aren't really much of a threat in the out the box game, so you'll have a happier time shooting at them with the VIIC/3 tower fitted.
I think the zwilling AA in VIIB can also down bombers quite easily if set to fire at close distance. If bombers are flying low, they mostly start burning straight away after 1st pass. Although additional AA might be good if I decide to go into their harbors and sink ships there (are there ships in harbors in stock SH3 anyway?).
To really combat the increasing number of aircraft after 1943 the IXD2 is the only boat that I've personally found that can actually hold its own against the endless barrage of planes and bombers. Even in the stock game the air assault is relentless; even if you down a whole squadron or two you'll find that the enemy just keeps sending more out till they sink you or force you to submerge and then try to pick you off when you resurface. Once you get the snorkel things get a bit easier as you can quickly replenish the O2 and recharge the batteries a little at a time until a plan spots it and starts carpet bombing your area.

Harbor raiding in stock SHIII is frustrating as there's a bug that can cause all the ships to sink inside the harbor before you get there. Harbor raiding in much more lucrative in GWX; but also tenfold harder, but then again the rewards are generally much greater as its not hard to get 50,000 tons or more once you finally make it into the actual harbor. Plus you get the chance to sink battleships and carriers, something you rarely if ever see in the stock version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajcev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey
As for your torpedoes, that sounds very odd, contact detonators never malfunction. I can only think you are perhaps hitting the ship at too extreme and angle?
I play original SH3 1.4 without any mods. It is odd, but when I use contact detonators and hit ship from ~50-80 degrees (where 90 is perpendicular) they don't explode in campaign. On the othe hand, magnetic detonators work quite well even from ~20 degree angle.
Magnetic sensors word best at ~ 75 - 120 degrees, the longer the eel is under the boat the better chance you have of it exploding correctly. When they do work they can keelbust any ship with a well placed shot. Last night I sunk the Hood (again, 3rd time in 2 patrols) with 1 eel targeted just aft of the last stack using the magnetic setting @ 13.5 meters. When they work magnetic detonation can sink pretty much anything in 1 shot if placed well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajcev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapus
90% failure rate in contact detonators seems way too high. I have never experienced a failure rate anywhere near that high playing GWX.
I do not play GWX, just stock 1.4 without mods. Maybe in GWX dud torpedoes were fixed?
If your comp can handle it I'd play GWX anyway, though harder than the stock game the hundreds of mods make it sooo much better than the stock version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajcev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Platapus
I would not shoot at under 400 M. The torpedoes need about 350 meters to properly arm. Could some of your "duds" be some of your torpedoes boinking on the side of the ship before they could be armed? I tend not to shoot under 500 meters
It is theoretically possible that I was firing from too close, but I sank another C2 from the same range that C3 was unsinkable. I think I also managed to sink a merchant from 200m. I always sank them using magnetic detonator.
Think the absolute minimum for the torpedo's to arm themselves is 300m. Have fired away at ships at 250m at they missed regardless of how close or even if they weren't moving. Unless the target is stationary, 400m is a safe range to ensure that the torpedo's arm themselves.

Ultimately the VIIB/VIIC is an endless debate, the VIIC does have more upgrades undoubtedly; then again all those upgrade suck up reknown. If you're trying to save up to det a nicer boat getting the upgrades can prolong that for several patrols. If you wanna try a type IX, should probably wait a few extra months till the IXC becomes available rather than jumping on the IXB. Though the IX's carry a lot more torpedo's, they didn't call them sea cows for nothing; their dive times suck and during an aerial raid your flak tower will get damage (or worse if a bomber scores a good hit) 90% of the time while diving if there are planes still around.

Even if you're playing stock I'd still recommend checking out SHIII commander, that program is extremely cool and usefull for managing your crew and keeping track of things. Other is SH3Gen which generate an intelligence report that shows were certain ships have been spotted or are suspected to be, and a lot more.
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