[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Would you still object if it were a split-screen film showing text of chinese domestic policy on one side and then showing their abuses in Tibet and against their citizens on the other?

No I wouldn't object to that because what Wilder is proposing to do and your hypothetical film are not the same. Wilders film is generally about Islam. Islam is not a nation or a government.

If your hypothetical film was gennerally about Chinese people and purported to represent what Chinese people believed in or supported; then showed images of the Chinese government commiting atrocities, with the association being that Chinese people advocated such behavior then it might compare.

Of course this assumes that thats what Wilders film will do. That is what I fear it may do.

Saudi Arabia still has stonings and beheadings (it's literally a weekly rally after mid-day prayers every friday), but ignoring them doesn't change the fact that they still happen.

If someone made a film about specifically Saudi Arabia I would have no objection, considering that it was no done in a deliberately inflamatory manner. I have already seen documentaries that show what happens in Saudi Arabia and it is an abomination.

So why should the muslims be so offended about something they already condone?

Here you assume that all Muslims advocate or condone public floggings, forced amputations and public beheadings. But this is nt the case. Its this lumping together of all muslims that is unhelpful and simplistic.

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you cannot see that, nobody can help you. One could also stop showing documentations about the atrocities commited by the Nazi and inside KZs.

What such docus and Wilder's scene have in common: you have an ideology quoted by it's content, and the display of results that it triggers in hard reality.

My fear is that Wilders film will not inform people but simply pander to exsisting prejudice and stereotypes of Muslims, simply stressing the negative aspects of Islam above all else. Nazism ideologically, culturally politically had absolutely no redeaming features. Nazism is to all intents and purposes a 'dead' ideology and those who still cling to aspects of it are tiny in number and unlikely to cause many deaths.

My objection is that Wilders film may be inflamatory and pander to streotypes, be designed purely to get a reaction adding nothing constructive to the discourse on Islam in the modern world and will cause the deaths of innocent people, and as I previously posted those deaths will more than likely be in poor Muslim countries where the populace already have to endure meadievilist societies. I find that objectional when this film is simply to serve Wilders populist political agenda.

By painting all Muslims as extremists you simply alienate the moderates and feed the fundamentalists more ammunition.

And as Broder at the end says anyway: important is the kind of behavior Wilder was able to trigger by simple procclaiming to show that movie - that so far nobody has ever seen, and can comment on. muslim world already is in arms again, and Western dhimmis already bend over again in rushing ahead obedience

The response, when this film has been reportedly grandstanded by Wilder in the manner it has, is predictable. Authorities who seem to be dancing to the extremists tune may simply be trying to keep control of the situation.

If you look in the Old Testement of the Bible it has many references to Genocide and other objectional acts, yet no one proposes making a film to point out this. Imagine what the reaction would be from Jewish groups if we showed just how fascist, elitist, genocidal, incestuous, sexist and racist it really is.

My personal view is that, generally, Abrahamic religion is a curse on mankind and has poisoned the world for over 2000 years. Thats not to say that I hold any animosity to Jews, Christians or Muslims, but all three religions in my view cause no end of suffering. I would say that it has caused more deaths than all the other religions of the world combined.

But I feel this film will only serve to pour more petrol on what is already an inferno.

Freedom of speech is a precious gift but I think we still have to use our heads before we open our mouths.

Ultimately this could all be moot: there may not be any film to show.