[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

An idiot to say it is inevitable, yes.

Remember that there are Jewish courts in use every day in Britain.

Just to give another dimension to this British-law-above-all attitude that seems rather common.

Beth Dins are almost unnown to non-Jews. Many do not evenknow they exist, inclduing me. Now that I know, I say they have to go as well. However, Judaism in Western nations never was missionizing and aggresively expanding, in fact severlly conttributed to the hosting nations, regarding arts, philosophy, science, education, cultural creation, and beeing Jewish in Germany and being German at the same time is on no way a contradiction. Beth Dins are mostly dealing with questions of divorce, and conversion, I meanwhile learned, and do not try to expand themselves onto others, non-Jews. - sharia on the other side holds a totalitarian all-pervading power that demands that all others miust act in a way so that Sharia and Islam is not offended, and rights are only accepted as far as sharia accepts such rifghts, and the freedom of speech is only valid so far as long as it is not beign sued to talk against Islam and Sharia, in which Islam again is offended once again. also, Sharia law cannot be picked apart and thus being granted valdity only in so0cmke of it's rules, in other snot, like it is done with Beth Dins. To think so means not to realsitically know what Sharia is. It is a non-modular, monolithic system designed to prevent any splitting, reformation, choosy picking, in order to safe Islam from being "perverted" this way. All or nothing at all, that is the motto.

Also, Sharia and islam stands for the slavery of females, supression of infidels, barbarism, inhumanity, medieaval blindness, stands for religious fascism, intolerance, draconic penalties, crippling of reason and intellect.

I can't see Jews in our nations and communities bullying the non-Jewish population, making trouble, aggressively demanding more and more concessions to Islam, soecial rights, and wanrting special procedures for themselves that even the european churches does not enjoy anymore today. Judging by it'S followers, Judaism and it's Jewish courts does little to nothing to missionize their social communities that host them. But Islam knows no self-restraints in all this.

So why again putting it into relation? Why again trying to raise a picture that it is not so bad, by relativising it? Sharia laws implemented in the West would be many, many times worse than the existing Beth Din (which also does injustice for example regarding certain implications of women trying to get divocres from their husbands, as i learned) . In Western societies there can and should and must only be one law, that is the law of the state and legislation. any other law of private corporations, private parties, relgious clubs, the Church, the Jews or Sharia is totally and completely unacceptable, and must be broken and replaced with the enforcement of the only law there can be in a society like ours where politics and religion are strictly kept separate.

Currently, Turkey Erdogan is visiting Germany. He used the opportunity to first demand school lessons being held in Turkish language, turkish schools and turkish universities bing established, teachers from turkey being send to Germany en masse, such schools and universities not as a symbolic institution of cultural exchnage like you often can see with an american university here, or even a planned german university in Turkey - he wants it to be a system covering all germany and becoming a second pillar of German education system alltogether. Next he realised that he worried the Germans by that, nicetalked it by superficially encouraging Turks (after 40 years) to finally learn German - and one setence later fired a whole broadside that they should not accept to become part of German society, but should remain Turkish, and should remain a Tiurkish community different from german society, and that it is a crijme against humanity to expect Turks coming and wanting to live in Germany to adapt to German standards "too much". Integration for him is only a worthless word. for him it means: getting a german passport, but staying turkish - in full. It means to have a german passport, but to vote in the lelections for turkish parliament (for the AKP, of course). urope shall not be left any chance of avoiding that, and that there shall not be an alternative for Turkey than just this. The crowds totally were enlightened with enthusiamsm.

Rememeber this is the same Erdogan who just months agaoi angrily wanrs the West to stop taling of moderate Islam and fundamental Islam - that would be an offence to every muslim, becasue there is only one islam, and the West should give up it's arrogant lecturing and manipulation of trying to play Muslims versus Muslims.

Currently, the turkish religion minstry already heavily interferes with placeholding associations in germany with german inner politics, finances the building of more and more and even more mosques, invests into segration and Turkish clture centres, provide aid to Turkish parallel societies, and directly undermines the demand for integration by the german state and the German population. They provide all imams that practically do not speak a word of German and do all service and preaching in mosques in Turkish, and rotate them in and out. Turkey makes lip-confession of training Imams in Germany under the German state's survaillance, it wants it'S own ministry providing these imams - outside the survaillance of the german authorities.

I giggled and laaughed when seeing it on TV, and felt a grim, gloomy satisfaction when thinking about Greens and SPD-people sitting ion front of their TVs: and seeng Erdogan getting all the cheers and applause you would expect "immigrants" (seeking to integrate into there new nation of choice) investing into their new "home". It was a worst case scenario of integration efforts needing to declare total and complete bankrupcty. Erdogan is an extremeol nationalistic and most fundamentalistic guy for whom Europe is islam's prey, he is very arrogant and self-convinced, and wants Turkey being in the lead to press it's claws deeper into europe, but I must admit he is clever and ruthless in his powerpolitics. For him it has economical benefits (at the cost of the EU), political power, but the main motive behind him is religion (the unwelcomed truth the EU does ignore with all determination it can bring up). He has estimated the weakness of the German politics totally correct, and used our own dmeocracy and free elections agaisnt us by making them the prferred choice of Islam to gain legitimation.

If somebody cannot see in how far this example has to do with the suggestion of implementing Sharia in Britain, I can't help such a mind anymore.

Just btw, due to a house fire in which 9 Turks got killed, turkey and its government immediately comparted chancellor Merkel with Hitler again, and that she is dscriminating the turks for not wnating them in the EU, and complained on racist arson, and all Germans being Nazis, and the imperial gestures and language once again gained such heights that I would give it a thought why we really must exchange ambassadors with that country any longer - we could happily do without turkey, that is for sure. It got leaked from police reports meanwhile that the wires were in bad shape, that it was tried to illegally draw off electric power from the town's electricity grid, and that the small girls that said they saw strangers putting up the fire got themselves trapped in so many contradictions and even descriptions of which they even did not know what they meant, that nobody believes them anymore anything. Most likely it is becasue those turkish families living in that house illegally played around with the electric wires that already were in bad shape, and thus caused the fiore themselves. I doubt that politicians will find it easy to talk that out in public if it turns into the truth being proven. the temptation to avoid conflict with turks again by just making the bad wires responsible, must at least be very high.