SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - The best flightsimulation on public market

Skybird · 01-30-08, 08:09 AM

Graphics

First, the landscape. The default scenery is a mesh for Slovenia with a resolution of 90m. It is made of digital data obviously, and the sim also supports high resolution standards like SRTM and DME. Textures are hand-drawn. Let’s face it, mostly it does not look as diverse and variable as Microsoft Flight Simulator, the meadows and forest are very greenish if you do not increase monitor brightness (then they look very nice), and the agricultural areas have a checkered pattern looking like a light and dark brown woollen blanket. Villages and buildings are there, but without greater detail in their painting, the look very much snowy white with red roofs.

However, all that does not matter, for the overall impression of the land you see below you is convincing, and mountain areas with forest even look as beautiful as in other flight sims, especially forest have been created with plenty of individual trees, and the the interaction between objects, vegetation, colour, sky and rolling terrain elevation gives you are very realistic modelling of the landscape. I must say: I like it very much, although having been sceptical when seeing my first screenshots. Still pics give a misleading impression with this sim. It is also extremely friendly on frames. Generic objects that are kept simple and limited in variety (like the trees), also help with this goal, of course.

Then there is the sky. This is done with great artistic excellence. Since you can set up a very huge combination of different weather constellations, and time of day influences the light conditions as well as shadows from clouds, there is really some beauty to see. You can even fly at sunset/dawn, although then graphical realisation does not compare to what you can see in IL2, or FS9/FSX. But you probably do not fly at that time of day anyway. Blending effects at daytime when looking into the sun, fading in and fading out the brightness maybe is the best and most realistic I have ever seen in any flightsim, leaving IL2 behind. Single cloud objects sometimes are a bit cartoonish and too sharp in their contours, but bad weather and huge cloud formations with varying volumes and then flying close to a mountain ridge totally drowns you in immersion. The weather model sees changing of thermals over the course of the day, and the visual presentation is not far behind the physical superiority of Condor in this regard. Flying in heavy storm and heavy rain is not possible though. But again: who would do that in reality anyway.

Planes are looking elegant and fragile, and I cannot get enough to see the fragile structure of my glider seeing soaring by in replay. It simply is a majestic and relaxing sight. The 3D models are welldone and flawless, the painting maybe not as photorealistic as in temporary flightsims, but they absolutely deserve no criticism, for they have no real flaws or weaknesses. Most convincing is the 3D modelling, though, they look great. Moving parts are animated, and when a plane opens it’s wing valves and get’s rid of the water in the ballast tanks (used to transform potential into kinetic – speed - energy), it produces contrail-like vapour that makes it look as if it is in fire or has ignited afterburner.

The virtual pilot is fully animated, and both hands move according to the action you just do, the right hand moves the stick, the left hand operates flaps or brakes etc. Due to the dynamic flightmodel, nothing ever stands still, your head is constantly moving and so is the cockpit around, sometime more sometimes less gently. There is no 2D cockpit.

The sim supports Track IR in mouseview mode, that compares to IL2, but where IL2 allows only three fixed zoom factors, the cockpit in Condor can be zoomed in and out smoothly via keystrokes. Close zoom reveals that the instruments and panels are very well done, and the gauges look very realistic indeed. Gliders do not have much stuff packed into the cockpit, but each cockpit of courses matches the type of glider it is representing, of course. The PDA offers 4 main pages of map, navigation, final glide, and wind and thermals, three having two sub-pages. The resolution is a bit low, but it is not really a problem, and maybe matches reality – I don’t know. At least one cockpit also has a dedicated LCD screen.

Some of the modded terrains that are available, use different texturing methods. For the Italian Alps, for example, there is a terrain with phototextures. It gives the sim a very different look, obviously. I cannot say it is better or worse than the default graphics, but it is different. As it is typical with photo sceneries, you need to be a certain amount of altitude above the surface in order to enjoy no “pixel salad”, but to see a real great looking terrain.

Sound

There is not much need for sounds, but what there is, is convincing. You hear the air moving outside the canopy, and changes in this sound with speed changing; the airframe will produce accustic reminders that you put it under stress, and the motor of the aerotow plane obviously can be heard too. Admiring your plane when flying by, will give you Doppler effects. Handling the controls also causes accustic background. So, no gimmicks like fantasy sound effects and music, but all what you would need in a high fidelity sim focussing on realism - realism was not let down by missing out some sounds that should be there: what is needed, IS there. The sounds are, according to the developer, digitally recorded from inside the cockpit.

The bread and butter of Condor: Physics and Flight Model

We now come to the part where this sim really shines and were the toy-like wannabe-“simulators” get separated from the real simulations, and of the latter, there aren’t many.

The physics model in Condor is a blast. The developer claims that the wide range of variables describing the flight models get updated 500 times per second. The plane reacts to the medium it is embedded in, that is the always moving, never stillstanding air, which is object to the various kinds of winds and airstreams you encounter in reality (for precise description I quote the developer in the following):

- on sunny ridges, you find anabatic winds (up slope winds),
- ridge lifts with leeward downwind and turbulences and venturi effects,
- waves behind ridges, with wavelength depending on wind speed and stability of the atmosphere,
- three-dimensional isotropic turbulences describing both thermal and mechanical turbulences.
And of course thermals, which means rising warm air, with the intensity of the lift depending on terrain sun exposure and ground features like forests, fields and villages. Thermals change with daytime passing, the changing sun conditions can increase or reduce thermals, and can make them disappear or create new ones. Time of day effects the way you can fly. Also, thermals modelled are no static entities: starting on the ground they reach the cloud base, the cloud becomes bigger and more dense and later dissipates, which causes the air below to sink again.

The atmospheric model that way is built to be second to none in any present simulation. Forget flying as if on rails, in condor you will experience a constant interaction between plane and atmosphere, with you trying to find a dynamic balance allowing you to soar the longest or fastest. You need to pay close attention to the map, the terrain features, weather conditions and time of day in order to learn how to “read” the environment you are in to find strong thermals, where to expect sufficient lifts, and how to climb over that mountain or pass that wide open flat terrain to reach the next upwind opportunity. That is a challenge, I tell you, and I admit that I am a complete novice at this, and find it very difficult. Thank God there are helpers that could be switched on and off: like bubbles in an aquarium, you can activate a bubble-style visualisation of thermals in your surrounding, that indicates the direction and intensity of them.

Flying technique also has a word here. Currently, still being a total amateur in the world of soaring, I find it doifficult to fly in a way and circle inside a thermal so that I really create lift and can win altitude – right now I am happy if I am not loosing any additional altitude.

13 planes are included, and they can carry different amount of water ballast (that before landing you need to empty into the air, making the sailplane looking as if on fire), and the centre of gravity also can be influenced. Choosing your plane from one of the half dozen classes confronts you with basic technical data on their flight characteristics, especially the speed polar diagrams that describe the plane’s translation of sink rate into speed gain, and range.

Sooner or later you also get confronted with MC theory, which is a mathematical description of the “best glide”, so to fly at what speed in order to have the smallest altitude loss and thus the longest range. Or if predetermining at what altitude you want to reach the next waypoint (because you expect a lift there, for example), how fast you can fly in order to cross the distance and arriving there at said altitude. Finding the best glide and the best speed is pretty much the bread and butter of soaring indeed. Reading the weather competently is the spread.

Fascinating stuff! No other sim I know gives me such an intense feeling to move in actual streams of air. It is a both relaxing and exciting, focussed way of flying. In FS9 you have plenty of systems to check, and many buttons to push, yes. In Falcon and IL-2 you have plenty of hornets trying to sting your tail, fine. But what they do not mediate to you is a sense of actually flying indeed, and being embedded in a real, 3-dimensional, dynamically changing medium. It is here where Condor is way ahead and out of sight.

What else there is…

I’m a shy boy

and thus never practice online. Even my beloved Steel Beasts Pro I do not play online. I flew online once, and that was traumatizing: long years ago, a virtual Falcon squad invited me for testflights and later membership. It was the climax of my active Falcon years. I did very well, and shot down several planes. One guy really gave me a headache and was dancing in my sights like crazy, yelling like a panicking idiot in French and begging his buddies to save him from me. I had problems with my comms setup too, probably a wrong channel, and my headset was a mess and was leased only and did not function properly anyway, and I don’t speak French, and so that was what I assumed: that he called for help. After having sent him down I learned after RTB that he was in fact my squadron leader (a Canadian), and he did not yell for help, but cursed that German idiot that was trying so hard to get his bottom toasted. I also ruined his record number of flights surviving undamaged. Well, that day I flew online even twice: for the first and the last time in my life.

That was - hm, seven or eight years ago I assume. Two lessons to be learned from this: first, online better never speak French, but English or German. Second: never make Skybird considering you to be prey.

So, I cannot comment on Condor’s performance regarding online action – but I can say that this is what it has been designed for especially. In fact there is a lot of league and class racing going on, a liost of dedicated servers can be found on the developer’s website. There are regular events, and established leagues and clubs. Up to 32 players can join in one match. I quote from their website:

Support for up to 32 pilots. Simultaneous Internet and LAN support. Dedicated server option. Central web based servers list for easy connecting. Host configures flightplan which is automatically propagated to clients (task, weather, plane class, realism options). Real time scoring and support for regatta starts for maximum excitement. Radio frequencies support when chatting.

As I already said, the possibility of flying with or against yourself by using ghosts, is very inviting and satisfying. You can also make beautiful movies and great screenshots with that option even when you do not wish to go online, or have no access to the internet.

Regarding competition disciplines, this is possible: From FAI rules to innovative Condor specific additions. Classic and window type sectors. User configurable penalty zones. Classic and regatta starts. Configurable penalty points for various infringements. Tail hunting - "eating" other players tail knuckles.

Dedicated acrobatics is also possible, at least one of the 13 default planes is specifically designed form this.

Planes are filling six categories: Standard, Open, School, Acro, FAI15, 18m.
The sim has detailed damage models and also correctly simulates things like flutter, high G stress, collisions.

You noted the missing of screenshots. That is intentional, for the frozen pictures are misleading and most likely will scare people away, the textures of the environment are not really top class, but only in motion you see that they nevertheless do a pretty good job for the purpose and goal of this simulation. You can find screenshot from the developer’s mainpage here:

Main Site:http://www.condorsoaring.com/index.htm

And their main forum here:http://forum.condorsoaring.com/

However, I checked videotube and found two very beautiful and two very illustrating movies that you should check out:

The first is the default scenery that comes with the sim. This is how it looks out of the box (increase brightness of your monitor - youtube videos are almost always too dark):

Condor default -

Next is an addon scenery with great soundtrack by Pink Floyd:
“The Essence of Condor” -

This is photorealistic scenery from the Italian Alps, with great group competition flying:
“The Condor Challenge” -

And finally, to get you back on the tough ground of reality, addon scenery which is done with the default graphics:

This should give you some impressions that are representative. But you do not know the dark side of soaring before you have not had your first flight in real cloudy weather with big monster clouds

Conclusions

The age of this sim should be counted as an advantage, because on most system it should run smooth. While the visuals are of age, obviously, they nevertheless completely and totally serve their purpose and do the job that they should do – give you a good visual feedback of your environment, and how it feels to soar just one meter above the tips of trees. The flight model is beyond doubt, the physics and the weather model is the reason why I label this the best flightsimulation on public market today – and some months ago, in one thread, our friend Chock, who seem to have both real pilot and reviewing experience if I am not mistaken, said something similar.
If you are interested in realistic flight simming, you cannot afford to ignore this one any longer. Don’t be scared by the theme of soaring: what scares you maybe, in reality is the source of this sim’s strength and fascination. You have so much freedom of action, and you get such a complete, complex and immersive experience, that I cannot imagine how anyone liking flightsims can find this one boring.

On a side note, one publisher offers dedicated sailplane hardware (gauges, panels), even with Condor explicitly being addressed.

the sim is almost unknown to the wide public, but insiders - real sailplane pilots - love it. Many of them say it helps them to keep up their skills and routines during the winterbreak.

Get your ticket and take a ride – you will be amazed what sailplanes can do, and with what great elegance and “Grazie” – it is almost stunning just to sit and watch.

The world record of high altitude soaring is held by Steve Fossett (USA) and Einar Enevoldson: 15.447 meters, on 30th August 2006. The world record in long distance soaring is held by Klaus Ohlmann (GER) und Karl Rabeder (AUT): 3.009 km on 21st January 2003from the southern tip of South America up to the north, along the Atlantic coast. The world speed record for a 1.000 km triangle is held by Helmut Fischer (GER): 170 km/h on 5th January 1995.

“Just” a sailplane…?

See you up there.

Edit 03-02-2008: Screenshots set up here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=767192&posted=1#post767192
scroll the page, there are around two dozens, in the middle, and at the end.

01-30-08, 08:09 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Graphics First, the landscape. The default scenery is a mesh for Slovenia with a resolution of 90m. It is made of digital data obviously, and the sim also supports high resolution standards like SRTM and DME. Textures are hand-drawn. Let’s face it, mostly it does not look as diverse and variable as Microsoft Flight Simulator, the meadows and forest are very greenish if you do not increase monitor brightness (then they look very nice), and the agricultural areas have a checkered pattern looking like a light and dark brown woollen blanket. Villages and buildings are there, but without greater detail in their painting, the look very much snowy white with red roofs. However, all that does not matter, for the overall impression of the land you see below you is convincing, and mountain areas with forest even look as beautiful as in other flight sims, especially forest have been created with plenty of individual trees, and the the interaction between objects, vegetation, colour, sky and rolling terrain elevation gives you are very realistic modelling of the landscape. I must say: I like it very much, although having been sceptical when seeing my first screenshots. Still pics give a misleading impression with this sim. It is also extremely friendly on frames. Generic objects that are kept simple and limited in variety (like the trees), also help with this goal, of course. Then there is the sky. This is done with great artistic excellence. Since you can set up a very huge combination of different weather constellations, and time of day influences the light conditions as well as shadows from clouds, there is really some beauty to see. You can even fly at sunset/dawn, although then graphical realisation does not compare to what you can see in IL2, or FS9/FSX. But you probably do not fly at that time of day anyway. Blending effects at daytime when looking into the sun, fading in and fading out the brightness maybe is the best and most realistic I have ever seen in any flightsim, leaving IL2 behind. Single cloud objects sometimes are a bit cartoonish and too sharp in their contours, but bad weather and huge cloud formations with varying volumes and then flying close to a mountain ridge totally drowns you in immersion. The weather model sees changing of thermals over the course of the day, and the visual presentation is not far behind the physical superiority of Condor in this regard. Flying in heavy storm and heavy rain is not possible though. But again: who would do that in reality anyway. Planes are looking elegant and fragile, and I cannot get enough to see the fragile structure of my glider seeing soaring by in replay. It simply is a majestic and relaxing sight. The 3D models are welldone and flawless, the painting maybe not as photorealistic as in temporary flightsims, but they absolutely deserve no criticism, for they have no real flaws or weaknesses. Most convincing is the 3D modelling, though, they look great. Moving parts are animated, and when a plane opens it’s wing valves and get’s rid of the water in the ballast tanks (used to transform potential into kinetic – speed - energy), it produces contrail-like vapour that makes it look as if it is in fire or has ignited afterburner. The virtual pilot is fully animated, and both hands move according to the action you just do, the right hand moves the stick, the left hand operates flaps or brakes etc. Due to the dynamic flightmodel, nothing ever stands still, your head is constantly moving and so is the cockpit around, sometime more sometimes less gently. There is no 2D cockpit. The sim supports Track IR in mouseview mode, that compares to IL2, but where IL2 allows only three fixed zoom factors, the cockpit in Condor can be zoomed in and out smoothly via keystrokes. Close zoom reveals that the instruments and panels are very well done, and the gauges look very realistic indeed. Gliders do not have much stuff packed into the cockpit, but each cockpit of courses matches the type of glider it is representing, of course. The PDA offers 4 main pages of map, navigation, final glide, and wind and thermals, three having two sub-pages. The resolution is a bit low, but it is not really a problem, and maybe matches reality – I don’t know. At least one cockpit also has a dedicated LCD screen. Some of the modded terrains that are available, use different texturing methods. For the Italian Alps, for example, there is a terrain with phototextures. It gives the sim a very different look, obviously. I cannot say it is better or worse than the default graphics, but it is different. As it is typical with photo sceneries, you need to be a certain amount of altitude above the surface in order to enjoy no “pixel salad”, but to see a real great looking terrain. Sound There is not much need for sounds, but what there is, is convincing. You hear the air moving outside the canopy, and changes in this sound with speed changing; the airframe will produce accustic reminders that you put it under stress, and the motor of the aerotow plane obviously can be heard too. Admiring your plane when flying by, will give you Doppler effects. Handling the controls also causes accustic background. So, no gimmicks like fantasy sound effects and music, but all what you would need in a high fidelity sim focussing on realism - realism was not let down by missing out some sounds that should be there: what is needed, IS there. The sounds are, according to the developer, digitally recorded from inside the cockpit. The bread and butter of Condor: Physics and Flight Model We now come to the part where this sim really shines and were the toy-like wannabe-“simulators” get separated from the real simulations, and of the latter, there aren’t many. The physics model in Condor is a blast. The developer claims that the wide range of variables describing the flight models get updated 500 times per second. The plane reacts to the medium it is embedded in, that is the always moving, never stillstanding air, which is object to the various kinds of winds and airstreams you encounter in reality (for precise description I quote the developer in the following): - on sunny ridges, you find anabatic winds (up slope winds), - ridge lifts with leeward downwind and turbulences and venturi effects, - waves behind ridges, with wavelength depending on wind speed and stability of the atmosphere, - three-dimensional isotropic turbulences describing both thermal and mechanical turbulences. And of course thermals, which means rising warm air, with the intensity of the lift depending on terrain sun exposure and ground features like forests, fields and villages. Thermals change with daytime passing, the changing sun conditions can increase or reduce thermals, and can make them disappear or create new ones. Time of day effects the way you can fly. Also, thermals modelled are no static entities: starting on the ground they reach the cloud base, the cloud becomes bigger and more dense and later dissipates, which causes the air below to sink again. The atmospheric model that way is built to be second to none in any present simulation. Forget flying as if on rails, in condor you will experience a constant interaction between plane and atmosphere, with you trying to find a dynamic balance allowing you to soar the longest or fastest. You need to pay close attention to the map, the terrain features, weather conditions and time of day in order to learn how to “read” the environment you are in to find strong thermals, where to expect sufficient lifts, and how to climb over that mountain or pass that wide open flat terrain to reach the next upwind opportunity. That is a challenge, I tell you, and I admit that I am a complete novice at this, and find it very difficult. Thank God there are helpers that could be switched on and off: like bubbles in an aquarium, you can activate a bubble-style visualisation of thermals in your surrounding, that indicates the direction and intensity of them. Flying technique also has a word here. Currently, still being a total amateur in the world of soaring, I find it doifficult to fly in a way and circle inside a thermal so that I really create lift and can win altitude – right now I am happy if I am not loosing any additional altitude. 13 planes are included, and they can carry different amount of water ballast (that before landing you need to empty into the air, making the sailplane looking as if on fire), and the centre of gravity also can be influenced. Choosing your plane from one of the half dozen classes confronts you with basic technical data on their flight characteristics, especially the speed polar diagrams that describe the plane’s translation of sink rate into speed gain, and range. Sooner or later you also get confronted with MC theory, which is a mathematical description of the “best glide”, so to fly at what speed in order to have the smallest altitude loss and thus the longest range. Or if predetermining at what altitude you want to reach the next waypoint (because you expect a lift there, for example), how fast you can fly in order to cross the distance and arriving there at said altitude. Finding the best glide and the best speed is pretty much the bread and butter of soaring indeed. Reading the weather competently is the spread. Fascinating stuff! No other sim I know gives me such an intense feeling to move in actual streams of air. It is a both relaxing and exciting, focussed way of flying. In FS9 you have plenty of systems to check, and many buttons to push, yes. In Falcon and IL-2 you have plenty of hornets trying to sting your tail, fine. But what they do not mediate to you is a sense of actually flying indeed, and being embedded in a real, 3-dimensional, dynamically changing medium. It is here where Condor is way ahead and out of sight. What else there is… I’m a shy boy and thus never practice online. Even my beloved Steel Beasts Pro I do not play online. I flew online once, and that was traumatizing: long years ago, a virtual Falcon squad invited me for testflights and later membership. It was the climax of my active Falcon years. I did very well, and shot down several planes. One guy really gave me a headache and was dancing in my sights like crazy, yelling like a panicking idiot in French and begging his buddies to save him from me. I had problems with my comms setup too, probably a wrong channel, and my headset was a mess and was leased only and did not function properly anyway, and I don’t speak French, and so that was what I assumed: that he called for help. After having sent him down I learned after RTB that he was in fact my squadron leader (a Canadian), and he did not yell for help, but cursed that German idiot that was trying so hard to get his bottom toasted. I also ruined his record number of flights surviving undamaged. Well, that day I flew online even twice: for the first and the last time in my life. That was - hm, seven or eight years ago I assume. Two lessons to be learned from this: first, online better never speak French, but English or German. Second: never make Skybird considering you to be prey. So, I cannot comment on Condor’s performance regarding online action – but I can say that this is what it has been designed for especially. In fact there is a lot of league and class racing going on, a liost of dedicated servers can be found on the developer’s website. There are regular events, and established leagues and clubs. Up to 32 players can join in one match. I quote from their website: Support for up to 32 pilots. Simultaneous Internet and LAN support. Dedicated server option. Central web based servers list for easy connecting. Host configures flightplan which is automatically propagated to clients (task, weather, plane class, realism options). Real time scoring and support for regatta starts for maximum excitement. Radio frequencies support when chatting. As I already said, the possibility of flying with or against yourself by using ghosts, is very inviting and satisfying. You can also make beautiful movies and great screenshots with that option even when you do not wish to go online, or have no access to the internet. Regarding competition disciplines, this is possible: From FAI rules to innovative Condor specific additions. Classic and window type sectors. User configurable penalty zones. Classic and regatta starts. Configurable penalty points for various infringements. Tail hunting - "eating" other players tail knuckles. Dedicated acrobatics is also possible, at least one of the 13 default planes is specifically designed form this. Planes are filling six categories: Standard, Open, School, Acro, FAI15, 18m. The sim has detailed damage models and also correctly simulates things like flutter, high G stress, collisions. You noted the missing of screenshots. That is intentional, for the frozen pictures are misleading and most likely will scare people away, the textures of the environment are not really top class, but only in motion you see that they nevertheless do a pretty good job for the purpose and goal of this simulation. You can find screenshot from the developer’s mainpage here: Main Site:http://www.condorsoaring.com/index.htm And their main forum here:http://forum.condorsoaring.com/ However, I checked videotube and found two very beautiful and two very illustrating movies that you should check out: The first is the default scenery that comes with the sim. This is how it looks out of the box (*increase brightness of your monitor - youtube videos are almost always too dark): Condor default - Next is an addon scenery with great soundtrack by Pink Floyd: “The Essence of Condor” - This is photorealistic scenery from the Italian Alps, with great group competition flying: “The Condor Challenge” - And finally, to get you back on the tough ground of reality, addon scenery which is done with the default graphics: This should give you some impressions that are representative. But you do not know the dark side of soaring before you have not had your first flight in real cloudy weather with big monster clouds Conclusions* The age of this sim should be counted as an advantage, because on most system it should run smooth. While the visuals are of age, obviously, they nevertheless completely and totally serve their purpose and do the job that they should do – give you a good visual feedback of your environment, and how it feels to soar just one meter above the tips of trees. The flight model is beyond doubt, the physics and the weather model is the reason why I label this the best flightsimulation on public market today – and some months ago, in one thread, our friend Chock, who seem to have both real pilot and reviewing experience if I am not mistaken, said something similar. If you are interested in realistic flight simming, you cannot afford to ignore this one any longer. Don’t be scared by the theme of soaring: what scares you maybe, in reality is the source of this sim’s strength and fascination. You have so much freedom of action, and you get such a complete, complex and immersive experience, that I cannot imagine how anyone liking flightsims can find this one boring. On a side note, one publisher offers dedicated sailplane hardware (gauges, panels), even with Condor explicitly being addressed. the sim is almost unknown to the wide public, but insiders - real sailplane pilots - love it. Many of them say it helps them to keep up their skills and routines during the winterbreak. Get your ticket and take a ride – you will be amazed what sailplanes can do, and with what great elegance and “Grazie” – it is almost stunning just to sit and watch. The world record of high altitude soaring is held by Steve Fossett (USA) and Einar Enevoldson: 15.447 meters, on 30th August 2006. The world record in long distance soaring is held by Klaus Ohlmann (GER) und Karl Rabeder (AUT): 3.009 km on 21st January 2003from the southern tip of South America up to the north, along the Atlantic coast. The world speed record for a 1.000 km triangle is held by Helmut Fischer (GER): 170 km/h on 5th January 1995. “Just” a sailplane…? See you up there. *Edit 03-02-2008: Screenshots set up here:* http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=767192&posted=1#post767192 scroll the page, there are around two dozens, in the middle, and at the end. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 02-03-08 at 06:19 AM.