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Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
Just trying to look at it from a logical perspective based on the science we know. And yes Skybird, how would one explain the Big Bang without god? This stuff just magically appear for no reason? Not sure how that could happen. Just some things in this Universe don't make sense without the existence of a creator. The Big Bang being one of them.
I've looked at both sides. Went away from god (yes, you might have considered me an atheist at the time) when I was in my teens and early 20's, but the more I understand science, the more I can't see any other way this could happen, our being could happen, our Universe existing without a creator. I can't explain it any other way.
-S
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Big Bang? Who says it has been like that? In past years, some people defending religions pointed finger at me and complained that I were saying that Darwin is the ultimate truth. I never indicated that belief, though. It's a theory - but in my eyes the currently best theory we have, making much more sense than any other. Big Bang also is a theory, born by a thinking that assumes that there must be a beginning and an end, and between the two time is "moving" from the first to the latter. But there are other models and thoughts, that simply do not include any beginning or ending, but saying that "it" simply is, never being born, never dying. I personally think that big Bang somehow is even a somewhat stupid, infantile theory, which says more about our disrupted way of thinking and making models of the world and our place in it, than saying something about reality. You see, I have seen some strange things and made some strange experiences that made me thinking that our concept of time if flawed, and that there is no beginning and no ending like big Bang and entropic heat-death of the universe. This theory only reaches as far as our current scientific knowledge allows us to go. I am also 100% sure that neither intellect nor ego alone can explain the universe, as you put it. That is like something limited trying to embrace the unlimited, so to speak. If you want to understand the universe, turn to your inner self. All the space up there - is your true inner space, just that. In the end, all life as well as astronomical reasearch is just the mind's dance with itself.
So, that is the essence of my conclusions, there is only your mind experiencing yourself, and all things you consider to be there - time, matter, God, sense and meaning - are only misled interpretations. But things are like they are, and what they are, your interpretation orginally is not needed., nor is your emotional reaction. While what is will set you free, and lead you beyond all boundaries of your intellectual or religious imagining. If you want to see the truth, loose your self and come to your unconditional awareness. Self-realization is only possible at the cost of self-transcendence: the more you want to see the true reality there is, the more you need to be unaware of yourself. that is the meaning behind the story of Jesus chasing the traders out of the temple. the more "yourself" there is, the less awareness of reality there is. total awareness of reality means: total absence of your "self".
When googling for the english translation of a Zen one-liner I wanted to give you, to my surprise I stumbled over a name I know - my second teacher and mentor, Wolfgang Kopp. He got quoted from a collection of transcripted speeches some students of him have collected and published in book form. Please note that the text is not to missionise concerning any ideology, nor is it arguing in favour or against any religion, it also does not tell anyone just to believe this or that, but leaves it up to you wether to analysize it by self-experience, or not. So take it for itself, not more, not less. From the following link, the first two texts, "Mysterious peaceful joy", and "The cheerfulness of the soul":
http://peterspearls.com.au/joy.htm
(bold printing and markings by the website's creator, not by Zensho).
You will note that by context, content and direction, it is right the same what I am occassionaly trying to point at, too. Also note that Zensho is a fully "ordinated" Zen Master and dharma-follower of Soji Enku Roshi, but nevertheless - like me - is not shy to refer to the Christian gospels and christian mystics, and Jesus. I already was like that when I first met him. He deepened my understanding of christian mystic, though.
Zensho and me always differed on the role of Paul, though.
One of my most favourite sayings:
Mind is of shining clarity, so throw away the darkness of all your terms. Free yourself from everything! - Huang Po. (my translation from German.)
That includes Darwin, Big Bang and evangelical confusion as well. Move beyond these dualistic arguments!