[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Then you agree that Iran should be allowed to develope nukes if they want, yes? Becasue by legal standards, they have that right.

If a nuclear armed Iran is not acceptable to us then we have the historic option of going to war to prevent it.

as long as your constittuion ends at your borders, I do not care. Wehre you impose your laws onto others becaseu you say your constitution allows you to do - that is were legal and justified self-defense against your trespassing of the line begins. Like in this example, which remains to be an example of wrong no matter what your constituion say on that. Becasue your rules and laws have to end at your borders.

We're not talking about prosecuting a wanted criminal in Germany. They would be brought back to the US first.

Your jurisdiction ends at your borders, and like you would not accept others to run secret police actions in your nation, you must and have to accept that you have no policing authortiy in foreign soverign nations. You can ask those nations for that suspect, and they will decide what to do on the basis of THEIR laws then, not yours. you can be allowed by these nations to catch him yourself, or doing so but having to accept assistance from the local police. but rushing in and get him yourself and not caring at all for the sovereignity of others, is nothing else but an infiltration. No, you do not have any right at all do behave like that. You also would not accept it if others would behave like that with regard to your own country.

You're repeating yourself which does not help your brevity problem Skybird. Again, if you don't like it then war is always an option.

that could be argued about. especially the current government knows only vasalls, and nothing else. and it repeatedly has dealt with others like that.

That statement just shows that you have absolutely no clue what a vassal really is. A vassal has no rights. You my fine vassal friend enjoy the same rights I would in our justice system.

You accept it. Period. We do not talk of Bin Laden. We talk of an immoral manager suspected of having commited fraud. Leave Bin Laden out of this. As a matter of fact, as I said in my first answer, you actually commit an act of war when infiltrating and kidnapping him in violation of the countries sovereignity and laws.

First off why not talk about bin Laden? Does he not fit into the fake outrage you're trying to portray here in this thread? As for your immoral manager example, obviously any fugitive recovery would have a risk/reward assessment associated with it. You can try to paint a picture of armies of US agents sweeping the German gutter for fugitives from our justice system but you greatly exaggerate. A failing of yours I continually note in your posts concerning my country. One would almost get the idea from reading them that you don't really like us...

Oh, the law of the juingle! I should have known that it all comes down to that level. By that reply you indicate that you accept that Ameican agents kidnapp suspects from other nations not becasue they have a right or it is legeal, but becasue your country thinks it has the bigger club.

My country does have a bigger club. A much larger one than the world will ever allow Germanys to get again I tell you whut.

And I am realistic enough to very strongly assume that if the BKA would hunt down suspects in your nation in violation with your laws and not letting you know, and remaining secret about that act of violating your sovereignity, that the public outcry would be immense and most of your politicians would be in arms over this act of german aggression and arrogance.

Uhh, if they remained "secret" how would our population/politicians know to get up in arms?

As a matter of fact, the BKA would not even consider it, ever. Becasue our laws end at our borders, like yours have to end at your borders. the BKA has acted in foreign nations indeed. with permission of their goivernments and in lcose cooperations with their police authorities.

Your laws do not end at your borders Skybird. Are you trying to say that a fugitive from German justice is no longer a fugitive because he runs past your borders? That's just silly.

Then you are the criminal as well, behave by the law of the jungle, and commit an act of war. Your country is not the navel of the earth, and your police has no right to ignore the sovereignity of other nations, and if your laws and eventually your constitution says differently, then that is bad, and a declaration of arrogance and lacking concern.

Accusations of arrogance from the forums arrogance king mean very little to me Skybird.

The example is not about a nation giving shelter to a manager suspected of fraud. Britain did not deide to giuve him shelter. It even did not knew, and the US completely ignores Britain as if it were not there.
It also means that we are not seen as your allies, but as your vasalls indeed that you see as having to obey your orders, of course. If you really were a freind, you would have a bit more trust into our polices and legal systems as well. It is not that they are all crap and barbarism, and it is not as if american laws are the new definition of "perfect".

You really ought to rein in your strawman arguments a bit because I never said that your laws are "crap and barbarism". Of course we have trust in our friends legal systems or else we'd still be running your government like we did in the post nazi era back when we couldn't trust you. But don't expect us to let some mass murderer go just because you personally don't like the method we used to apprehend him.

If we want to put a bounty on a fugitives head we will. If someone collects that bounty by delivering him to our jurisdiction we will not let that fugitive go because someones feeling got ruffled.

If you really our friends you wouldn't be sheltering our fugitives in the first place.