SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

MarkShot · 11-01-07, 08:48 PM

I have AOD, CAOD, and SHCE. However, I prefer AOD.

I think the dynamic campaign was better in AOD. In SH, you could not help but trip over Japanese traffic there was such a high quantity of it. Also, with AOD, you could stick with one convoy (and wolfpacks) attack over a period of five days. In SH, this could take you off the end of the map. The escort AI did a better job in AOD. Escape was harder. Additionally, a key flaw in SH was the vulnerability of DDs to a stern tube down the throat shot as they charged you. In reality a DD has a narrow profile bow on and is fairly maneuverable under such circumstances. Making such a shot when the DD knows you are there shooting should be very low percentage.

Of course, SH has better graphics for the most part and AOD has some issues with sound drop outs. Despite the graphics, AOD rendition of the ocean was more convincing. I never did manual TDC, but only SH had that. SHCE came with a mission editor lacking in AOD. I also have about 400 custom scenarios besides those that came with the game.

In fact now that I think about it, it's been far too long, since I have gone on patrol with these two games.

I also have SH3 1.4 with GWX 1.03. (SH4 too, but I haven't messed with it.) On the whole the mod is superb, however there are play balance issues that can make it somewhat frustrating at times. I remember attempting submerged attacks (even early war), the escorts ability to spot a scope was simply amazing. Additionally, trying to make a submerged approaches required a crawl as to not be heard even when trying to maneuver under a large noisy convoy. Some of the ASW capabilities which either slipped into GWX as side effects or were added to increase challenge level put even modern ASW capabilities to shame. After playing both AOD and SH, the joy and fun of screen penetration of slipping carefully through the screen or underneath was removed. With SH3/GWX you pretty much needed to lie barely moving in the path of the convoy. While shooting you would making final observation and shoot with the enemy already aware of your position. In both SH and AOD, a well planned attack and spread would allow you time to begin slipping away. When properly executed, your position might be very hard to determine.

Now, on the whole the escorts did a better and more convincing job of hunting you down in these early subsims. They would coordinate their efforts. An amusing thing I recall from SH3/GWX is actually remaining at PD and watching the cross fire that would open up on my scope. Very often the escorts would shoot each other up and they attempted to harm your sub - very funny. Additionally, you would get DD which would back up/slow over their own DC drops and blow their sterns off.

NOTE: I am aware that these type of issues are problems with SH3 and not GWX. I know that comments about SH3/GWX can become very contentious, but these early sims were very well done. SH3/SH4 - there was a very heavy focus on graphics, 3D, and on jaw dropping effects. Without a doubt, the UBI team suceeded in this area, but the cost of this was some of the game play balance that was in earlier games where CPU cycles went into simulation as opposed "making the best water ever seen in a naval sim". Yes, I read the 2007 Subsim Almanac and the target for SH3 was to have the best water ever seen in a naval sim and finally rival flight sims for visual affects.

But subs are not flight aircraft, if one stays in the cockpit of a sub, then all you really need is a lot of the time is a 2D station. SC/DW pretty much have it right in this regard, the game is the stations. SH3/4 (just looking at forum site traffic) was able to go more mainstream than a sub game ever did. So, despite my comments here DW was a business failure whereas SH3/4 where business successes even if they fail to rival some of the game play quality of earlier games of more than a decade previous.

Well, enough said ... I am very happy for DOSBOX and that the thrill of the hunt and the evasion in a classic like AOD can still be had. Alarm!!!

11-01-07, 08:48 PM	#5
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I have AOD, CAOD, and SHCE. However, I prefer AOD. I think the dynamic campaign was better in AOD. In SH, you could not help but trip over Japanese traffic there was such a high quantity of it. Also, with AOD, you could stick with one convoy (and wolfpacks) attack over a period of five days. In SH, this could take you off the end of the map. The escort AI did a better job in AOD. Escape was harder. Additionally, a key flaw in SH was the vulnerability of DDs to a stern tube down the throat shot as they charged you. In reality a DD has a narrow profile bow on and is fairly maneuverable under such circumstances. Making such a shot when the DD knows you are there shooting should be very low percentage. Of course, SH has better graphics for the most part and AOD has some issues with sound drop outs. Despite the graphics, AOD rendition of the ocean was more convincing. I never did manual TDC, but only SH had that. SHCE came with a mission editor lacking in AOD. I also have about 400 custom scenarios besides those that came with the game. In fact now that I think about it, it's been far too long, since I have gone on patrol with these two games. I also have SH3 1.4 with GWX 1.03. (SH4 too, but I haven't messed with it.) On the whole the mod is superb, however there are play balance issues that can make it somewhat frustrating at times. I remember attempting submerged attacks (even early war), the escorts ability to spot a scope was simply amazing. Additionally, trying to make a submerged approaches required a crawl as to not be heard even when trying to maneuver under a large noisy convoy. Some of the ASW capabilities which either slipped into GWX as side effects or were added to increase challenge level put even modern ASW capabilities to shame. After playing both AOD and SH, the joy and fun of screen penetration of slipping carefully through the screen or underneath was removed. With SH3/GWX you pretty much needed to lie barely moving in the path of the convoy. While shooting you would making final observation and shoot with the enemy already aware of your position. In both SH and AOD, a well planned attack and spread would allow you time to begin slipping away. When properly executed, your position might be very hard to determine. Now, on the whole the escorts did a better and more convincing job of hunting you down in these early subsims. They would coordinate their efforts. An amusing thing I recall from SH3/GWX is actually remaining at PD and watching the cross fire that would open up on my scope. Very often the escorts would shoot each other up and they attempted to harm your sub - very funny. Additionally, you would get DD which would back up/slow over their own DC drops and blow their sterns off. NOTE: I am aware that these type of issues are problems with SH3 and not GWX. I know that comments about SH3/GWX can become very contentious, but these early sims were very well done. SH3/SH4 - there was a very heavy focus on graphics, 3D, and on jaw dropping effects. Without a doubt, the UBI team suceeded in this area, but the cost of this was some of the game play balance that was in earlier games where CPU cycles went into simulation as opposed "making the best water ever seen in a naval sim". Yes, I read the 2007 Subsim Almanac and the target for SH3 was to have the best water ever seen in a naval sim and finally rival flight sims for visual affects. But subs are not flight aircraft, if one stays in the cockpit of a sub, then all you really need is a lot of the time is a 2D station. SC/DW pretty much have it right in this regard, the game is the stations. SH3/4 (just looking at forum site traffic) was able to go more mainstream than a sub game ever did. So, despite my comments here DW was a business failure whereas SH3/4 where business successes even if they fail to rival some of the game play quality of earlier games of more than a decade previous. Well, enough said ... I am very happy for DOSBOX and that the thrill of the hunt and the evasion in a classic like AOD can still be had. Alarm!!! __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!