[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

McBee, old hoss, you are closer than you think. First of all, the so-called "parties" weren't parties at all in the modern sense. George Washington is almost always called a "Federalist", but he belonged to no party. The first factions in Washington's cabinet were Alexander Hamilton and anyone who opposed him, primarily James Madison, who felt that the Constitution did not provide for the Federal Government to charter organizations. John Adams was supported in his presidential bid by Hamilton, but Adams was so much his own man that Hamilton did everything he could to destroy him in 1800. Thomas Jefferson called himself a "Republican", because he believed in the republic. Hamilton accused Madison and Jefferson of creating the first American political party just to oppose him, and there may be some truth in this; Madison did organize a grass-roots movement to elect Jefferson that same year (1800).

But let's look at the differences as listed:
Federalists

1. Favored strong central government.

True. Hamilton saw that the whole thing was falling apart under the Articles Of Confederation, under which the Congress had no power to enforce anything. But then, so did Madison, who was co-author of the "Federalist" papers, but is still called a Republican, due to his opposition to Hamilton's National Bank movement.

2. "Loose" interpretation of the Constitution.

Not necessarily. In fact the prime movers, Madison and Hamilton, argued many times over what they actually meant. They didn't agree about what "strict" and "loose" interpretations were.

3. Encouragement of commerce and manufacturing.

True, but even Jefferson finally came to see that those were the wave of the future.

4. Strongest in Northeast.

Again true, primarily because that was where they were from.

5. Favored close ties with Britain.

Mostly because they distrusted Revolutionary France. While Hamilton was a prime mover behind Jay's Treaty, which prompted Jefferson to write the letter which ended up with Washington refusing to speak to him ever again, Hamilton also spoke fluent French and was declared an honorary member of the French parliament, an honor never accorded to Jefferson.

6. Emphasized order and stability.

Except when they tried to have several New England states seceed during the War Of 1812.

Republicans

1. Emphasized states' rights.

Except when Jefferson and Madison were president, and they both tightened the reigns as much as they possibly could.

2. "Strict" interpretation of the Constitution.

Except when Jefferson ignored due process in his attempts to get Aaron Burr hanged for treason.

3. Preference for agriculture and rural life.

True, but because that was what they grew up with. Jefferson, Madison and Monroe were all rich southern landowners. Oops, so was Washington, the leading "Federalist".

4. Strength in South and West.

Again true, but that's because they were mostly from the South, and everyone there knew them. Well, except for Aaron Burr, who was, like Hamilton and John Jay, from New York.

5. Foreign policy sympathized with France.

As with their opponents, they didn't sympathize with France so much as they distrusted Britain. While Secretary Of State Jefferson and Secretary Of The Treasury Hamilton were wrangling over whom to trust less, President Washington was doing everything he could to keep America neutral in the most recent Anglo-French war.

6. Stressed civil liberties and trust in the people

Madison? The guy who created the Electoral College, which in his original version is appointed by the state legislatures? Yes, they stressed civil liberties, so much so that any carefule reading of the Declaration and the Bill Of Rights will show that they believed that government only existed to guarantee absolute freedom for everyone to do anything they wanted, so long as they also recognized that same right for everyone else.

Of course Jefferson the "Civil Libertarian" was giving lip service to Abolition while going against the law he had helped create ending interstate commerce in slave trading. While presisdent he asked the governor of South Carolina to allow his son-in-law special dispensation to move a group of slaves through his state and into Georgia for sale.

On the other hand, the leading "Federalist", Hamilton, spent many years alongside "Republican" Burr as a New York lawyer, campaigning for Abolition and trying (and winning) 'false enslavement' lawsuits. When asked to join the French Les Amis Des Noir ("Friends Of The Blacks"), Hamilton said he was honored to accept. Jefferson, when asked to join, declined for political reasons.


As with today's parties, no one is always what they seem. The founders were far from perfect, and they had their battles and wars just as much as any other generation's politicians.

Federalist or Republican? Just like today, I stand somewhere in between.

Steve, you are a true scholar. I miss our Civil War conversation in Burger King, that was quite fun .

Regarding my independent party comments, I don't like the politicans that say they are for big government and high taxes, but are pro- [insert issue here] and call themselves an independent. I think we need to take our parties back from the extremes.