[August]

Originally Posted by P_Funk

And what is your basis for this argument? Have you examined every possible concept for socialist development? Have you personally investivgated all the many socialist microcosms which have functioned in individual contexts all around the world in random little places? Or do you just accept the mainstream's limited vision of it?

This idea that somehow capitalism has won is fallacious and frankly annoying. Many different socialist concepts for social existance have been put forward and shot down before they were even tried. The only examples you then have are 20 and 30 year old stories of failed states or terribly misleading examples of 'communist' dictatorships that never were socialist.

You say that socialism is about eliminating the individual and homogenizing the process of exitance. That is far fromt he truth. If this was the result in some cases, then that was a failed attempt. The real idea behind socialism and its many different rethinkings (some people refuse to be considered a socialist simply because of the connotation and misleading ideas associated with it) is that you eliminate the unfair obstacles that make one man succeed where an identical man fails. The basic idea is to make class advantages as unimportant as possible. You might worship the mantle of capitalism but every decade rich are richer and poor are poorer. It is still true today that if you have money and wealth you need not even bother trying since you're already won the rat race.

The much lauded American Dream is a dead idea. It thrived in the 50s in the post-war boom where basically every allied nation threw cash at New York to pay off their war debts and the military industrial complex that was born in the war continued to thrive. And even if America is pretty well off all around the world minor countries that try to achieve some independance, be it economically, or democratically, are all muscled into line by some form of economic oppression handed out by the many moneyed powers. The world bank, or just America's own questionable foreign policy.

Yeah right, well foreigners have been predicting my countries imminent demise ever since we became independant. That is over two centuries of market based economy and we've done pretty darn well for ourselves so far.

Socialist governments on the other hand have always either failed or turned despotic rather quickly, except in a few small communities which, imo, are the only places that such a political system can work.