[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Official scorecard.

Okay, that cleared it a bit. Should have been given toigether with the video, since the tone was so miserable - I did understand only every third word or so.

He was violently and continually resisting arrest. Also he wasn't tased, though tasing might have been justified under the circumstances. So would a good ol' fashioned billy club.

That is hairsplitting. If a tazer, no matter if a distance tazer or a non-shooting tazer, is being used, it means to deliver the subject a painful dose of electricity. I had a meeting with Mr. Electricity once when I was a child. The pain was terrible. - BTW, in Germany polciemen are strong and tough enough to be able to deal with such a situation and getting the subject out of a room - without even having Tazers available.

why not simply grabbing him, getting him outside - AND THEN TELL HIM WHAT CRIME HE COMMITTED.

From moment 1 he tried breaking loose and resisted. That's why. Did you bother watching the videos? The defintion of resisting arrest is no that complicated.[/quote]

The tazing still is excessive, and I do not stop critiocising it. It was in no way necessary. Tazers should be meant as a weapon that does not seriously huirt an offender who poses a thread, and to disarm him. That'S also what they originally had been invented for. But here, and probably not only here, they are used as a disciplinary measure. It is not the police' job to decide about actual penalties. That is the job of a court, and a juidge. So I still say Tazer get abused in examples like this. And again my hint: we can do without them over here. German police union even says they do not want them, only in special units, eventually - and they hint at the negative example in America. It's the police itself saying that.

Who says you need to reach that point?

Unacceptable what you say, by basic legal principles. Maybe he had a bomb trigger hidden in the book. I think he should have been shot in both hands imemdiately. Just in case, you know. If following your logic, we immediately must arrest the complete population. so that we must not "reach that point".

Had he a weapon?

Head, teeth, hands and feet. Yep, remember those guys?

Not everyone is a second Bruce Lee. and I expect policemen to have proper training to deal with a figure like in this example without using weapons. If american polcie cant do that, they are welcomed to complete their training in Germany. Hell, even I could train them in this regard.

To an extent to the police. They don't need to have to suffer a scratch when placing someone under arrest. Nor do they need to tolerate any physical or verbal abuse.

Yes. so let's take that guy out of the room. I still do not see the need to taszer that guy. He obviously wanted to get it on camera. And they did him that favour. Clever! Ironically, last monday I was witness at court, a shoplifter who resisted arrest half a year ago and claimed to have been beaten when being defenseless (being kept down by already two guys, one of whom was me). That detective said it was self-defense, but the truth was he allowed himself getting provoked verbally. If a subject is already on the ground and hold down by two, later three people, he may struggle to get out, but effetcively is defenseless if competently being taken care of. beating him in that condition (or tazer him) is no act of self defense, but using more force than necessary. I shouted at that detectiove in that situation to get out and stay away when seing that he was loosing selfcontrol, but he didn't listen and hit the man in the face, twice. And I could not stop him since I was busy with the guy on the floor. The detective will be sentenced for physical injury now. Clever. He definetly is in the wrong business when loosing self-control so easily - by being verbally provoked. the thief I also saw at court. And I saw that he took great satisfaction from seeing that he succeeded in getting thta man into trouble - with words only!

The audience are not the owners of the auditorium and do not make the rules. Where I come from, people around an arrest suspect don't get to vote him on or off the island. And by you?

If, as I previously concluded from the video and the bad sound, he did nothing wrong, , and if even the audience did not complain about something he did, why then etc etc.

Everything has its time, place and limits. From the video, he overstepped his time, was asked to step away and he refused, including pushing/pulling a policeman away. He does not own the place and does not make its rules. If he doesn't like it, he should have obeyed the rules or not shown up in the first place.

Still, the reaction is too excessive in my eyes. It would have been enough to simply get him out, and questioning him outside. If half a dozen policeman can't acchieve that, they are either badly trained - or better seek a new job. I simply judge that on the basis of my own skills, so I do not demand too much. BTW, on TV there are often debates, and stage discussions - and if somebody gets a bit liud, or seeks attention, and oversteps his time limit - we still do not shoot him out of the saddle, but - depending on the situation - exclude him by ignoring him (or not), or catch him and lead him out of the room. If needed, the guards even carry him out of the room.

The guy got the public media attention that he probably wanted, and the police looks bad by having handled the issue the way they did. That says it all.