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Originally Posted by Kapteeni Rantala
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The deck gun was a weapon of last resort.
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I disagree, it was weapon to be used when firing a torpedo would seem like waste of munitons. |
Where are the logs of attacks on decent sized merchants. I don;t care in the least about U-boats, SH4 isn't about U-boats, so don't even bother with U-boat examples. Alden's book lists (in tabular form) every single submarine attack made by the USN in WW2. Every one. Sinkings, and damage, and he has entries for attacks by all types of weapons, even mixed attacks. They were simply not used aside from sinking sampans routinely.
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It exposes the crew and the boat to easy damage by the enemy.
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Which is why they were used to attack unescorted merchant vessels.
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Not by US submarines they weren't.
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Hence it only occured with small targets and to finnish off smaller merchants. Not 6000GRT merchants.
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In the United States Navy.
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SH4 is about the USN. I don't care about the KM in the least except to the extent they went to the bottom. If you want to demonstrate their effectiveness by the KM, count every single deck gun attack made from whatever the equivalent book for the KM is that lists every single attack made compared to post war records from the allies to make sure the claims match real sinkings and get back to me
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I've been searching for a while and can find no references to U boats sinking 2000+ ton merchants on a reguar basis by gunfire.
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No one said anything about "regular basis" (i.e. on every patrol). I am pointing out that it was not as so uncommon for U-boats before 1943.
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What % of unescorted merchants above 2000 tons were attacked this way? I can get that figure for some time period for the US boats, I just have to count them up.
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Deck guns as modeled in.... SH4 are way too effective.
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Having played the game with the mod which is the title of this topic I dare to disagree.
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I still think they are absurdly easy to hit with, and damage and damage control are still pretty simplistic in SH4.
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TM and NSM attempt to counter this, and are pretty succesful at that.
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If you consider firing 200 shells, including 140 4.5 inch AP shells at a ship's hull (including waterline) - and the only damage being a small fire on the stern (speed is not reduced and no real indications of damage being taken appear) to be realistic then I don't know what is.
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A bugged target DM doesn't indict the entire mod. Regardless, since the smallest ship (merchant) in game is on the large size for anything actually fired upon with deck guns by USN subs, what difference does it make?
US subs didn't attack anything above really small merchants with deck guns. There were very very rare exceptions. So pretty much using your deck gun on anything in SH4 aside from sampans is flatly unrealistic. In virtually never happened. (and many of the "2000 ton" ships attacked by US boats with the DG turned out to be under 1000 tons in actual fact.)
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Many japanese merchant ships were armed with AA guns, even if just MGs, and having your deck swept by MG fire was a bad thing in RL.
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Of course, and as I have mentioned earlier, I would not attack armed merchant ship (nor would I have expected real-life submarine commanders to do so), although this did not prevent submarines from attacking armed merchant ships. Italian submarin Comandante Cappellini sunk three merchant ships with her deck gun, all displacing far more than 2000 tons (5186, 5029 and 7472 tons). And mind you, these were armed ships.
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RL skippers in the USN didn;t attack UNARMED merchants of any size with DGs, either.
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