[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Wish you would lay off Poland Skybird.

They are just looking out for their own interests first and foremost.

What a relief to know. If all EU members would do like them, we would have had several wars again since WWII.

To bad if it does not suit Germany or the rest of Eurolands agenda.

So that is an attitude of being destructive for the sake of being destructive only - like the twins practice themselves.

Obviously you have a problem with some basic principles of democracy. While no more trustworthy legal validity also is of no concern for you. It is only about the bad ugly Huns again, right? Of course the problem cannot be Polish ultra-nationalism and seek-to-destroy revanchism? Could you tell me why a majority of Polish population is said to be appalled by the way their twin government has confronted the summit? And why - a subjective story from me, but true - the three Polish people I happen to know also say they are horrified by the damage the twins are doing to the reputation of their people, and the way they blackmail Europe?

Unfortunately, this is not a Polish-German issue alone. All europe is affected. The Poles wanted their voting power doubled on the basis of nothing. they said their voting power is twice as much of worth and value than that of any other (not only germans!). Then they wanted the right to endlessly veto and block any decision by the community they do not like, and then accepted to get the veto power that fully corresponds to the size of their nation, and is much higher than their general economical contribution to the EU's general productivity, plus the ability to block any decision during another three years of phasing in the new representative voting system. After having agreed to that - now they say "Ätschi-Bätschi! Angeschmiert! We want the right to block every European decision that we do not like, for two years, no wait: for all time to come, eternally! WE deicde which decision goes through, and which one not" They do not care a bit for majority decisions, and their bezhavior illustrates that they seek imperial tyrannic power - if not to enforce the way of goings they want to have, then at least to block every majoirty decisiuon they do not like.

I for one am glad to see politicians that are not afraid to upset the apple cart for a change.

... no matter what their cause is. Clever of you! I prefer to fight only when the cause is just. Which here is not the case.

Maybe Germany should reduce it'S financial contributions to the EU. What Poland takes from the EU alone is equal to the money germqany pays to Brussel. Usually, we have a strong economical interest in an open europe to which we can send our exports. But if payong fopr one quarter of the EU budget is causing single players to abuse us as the paymaster of Europe, while at the same time they put all the Nazi-time on present living generation's shoulders, mock at us, and offend us time and again, then I must come to the conclusion that maybe it is not worth it to pay anymore for such neighbours. As I said, I know Poles, and knew some in the past. Father of a family in my house is Polish, our house gardener, and a colleague at work. They all said they are somewhat ashamed, and would like to see the EU and Germany to isolate the current government in Warsaw and ignore them.

What more must one say?


And concenring that "Poland bashing" thing:

in this thread (not started by me!) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117115 I said concerning the Polish people, and the Polish politics:

Originally Posted by Skybird

In no way they are representing a majority. Maybe not more than 20%. On a private, inter-human level, relations between Polish and Germans for the most are good, when ignoring that ultranationalistic parts of the Polish press did not hesitate to compare Merkel with Hitler, or Germany and Russia planning to crush Poland again, amongst other "jokes".
(...)
Let'S see if the twins will get elected again next time. If so - then it is early enough to confront the Polish and hold them responsible for their voting, because then it is a repitition of what in the first vote maybe was just an experiment for many. Until then, Germany should have the sovereignity to simply sit them out without provoking them and feeding their ressentiments. Last but not least, the twins cost the Polish many sympathies throughout Europe, and right now almost all states already shake their heads about them. In the main - they are damaging Poland, not Germany.

note that in that same thrwad I somewhere said that I wished the summit to fail to force politicians to recognize that they cannot leave out the people of europe and expect them to see that as "democratic". I wished Blair and the Poles good luck in staying adamant in their rjection. So, my problejm is not on level of the treaty, but in the general hostile, irresponsible and destructive attitude that does not reject the treaty for being not a good one, but that tries to blackmail Europe to get more power than what is yours, and try to inflict as much damage on your neighbour as possible.

And on the difference between the Polish people, and the Polish politics, again here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117235

Originally Posted by Skybird

I want to reiterate again - like i already said earlier - that my anger, when talking of "Poland", is with the twins, and the coalition parties, and the camp of the ultraconservative and nationalistic political faction in Poland. This counts for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the whole population, so my impression, and that is what several Polish journalists on Germnn TV inrecent weeks also were indicating. Which means that the majority of Poles probably does not share the official Polish hostility towards Germany. On level of private relations between citizens from both countries, i think the majority of interhuman experiences is positive.

I certainly would help if the moderate majority would try more to prevent leaving the Polish policies to the extremists.

And this report on a recent poll: http://www.welt.de/politik/article97...mpathisch.html

It says the finding was that two of three Germans on private levels and in personal relation like the Polish and find them very sympathetic, only one in five said he does not lke them. Subjectively seen, I would say that is close to the truth.

But two in five see the political relations as stressed and damaged, one in five says they are good.