[Heibges]

Originally Posted by CCIP

The problem is that Putin (despite these terrible failings) has done more for ordinary Russians than anyone else has in the past... decades, really. He's given them stability. I said this and I will say it again: Putin's popularity and approval among Russians is genuine. There is no other realistic popular path; the liberal democratic path has died a quiet death in the mid-90's there. And Russian democracy's downfall started not in 1999 with the rise of Putin, but in 1993 when Yeltsin trampled over it by sending tanks to silence a democratically-elected parliament. Let that bastard turn over in his grave! He's the criminal that is largely to blame for this.

Who do you think will do more for ordinary Russians? That's what I ask. There's noone. All the good guys have either been sidelined or are dead, really. I say this as a former supporter of Yabloko (the prime liberal democratic party that rose in the early 90's, but today is struggling to maintain status as a party), and a sympathiser of General Lebed' (RIP, I'll never believe his death was an accident). And you will never get Russians to support crazies like Kasparov. Or sympathise with Khodorkovski, Berezovski, and all that other trash. Just not gonna happen.

Again, I do not support Putin. But you have to step back and ask yourself 'who else'?
If you think that democracy just happens by overturning whatever current crappy regime is in power, then I point you to Iraq. Putin was right at G8 last year: "We do not want the same democracy as in Iraq." And in general, shocking though it may sound, for most Russians today 'democracy' is a bad word. And I shudder at the thought of what you'll get if you throw out Putin (and the rest of the ex-KGB apparatus that supports him) today. You'll get either another bout of 'oligarchy' where the people will be far worse off, maybe the extreme left, or, most likely - the extreme right. Do you want a fascist Russia? I didn't think so.

As I said, the West had their chance in the early 90's to help Russian democracy and foster closer ties, as they did in many other places (see: Eastern Europe) instead of "LOL we won the Cold War! Yay! Let them squirm in their triumphant failure!" They/you blew it, and the only reason I can explain that is a classic case of Russophobia and a causeless thirst for revenge (why?).

I don't think it was revenge, but the West was scared of losing their whole investment like after the 1917 Revolution. There was no real rule of law. A company would have to negotiote with the National, Regional, and Local Government, and still not be sure they had all the proper paperwork etc.