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Originally Posted by Chock
....if I post any mods, I regard it as fair game for anyone to do with them as they will. If they credit me, great, if not, I'm not that bothered. For all I know, there might even be some stuff I did in GWX, I've never been that bothered to find out..
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Well, that's great. However, we (and many other modders) disagree. I think this is enough to make an issue of it. Unless you went by another name before, nothing by you has been included. You would have received a request prior to such a thing anyway.
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Originally Posted by Chock
While I'm sure you took the trouble to contact a lot of modders if it was hoped that their work was to be included, I seriously doubt anyone phoned up Peter Gabriel and got his permission to use the intro to Sky Blue on the loading screen, so there is a copyright issue with GWX before you even get to the simulation part that goes way beyond upsetting a modder. Similarly, I doubt Wolfgang Peterson or Bavaria Studios got a call, and there are most definitely some sounds from Das Boot in GWX too...
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The precedent was set by good old RUb lol... which included bites from Das Boot in the voice files with the explaination that it was freeware. Nor do we seek profit of any sort... or offer media in any sort of way that we can can make a profit.
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Originally Posted by Chock
Originally the SH3 devs tried to get permission to do this (with Das Boot) for SH3 in its early stages, but the cost was prohibitive (seemed like a short-sighted decision to me actually, since it would have amounted to a huge plug for further Das Boot DVD sales, but there you go)....
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You know, if we manage to help Bavaria Studios sell another 10,000 copies of Das Boot... COOL. It helps them and fuels the submarine simulation community. NO money of any sort has lined our pockets... In fact I have turned down offers of "donations" more than once.
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Originally Posted by Chock
So from this I can only assume that 'It has always been the policy of the GW/GWX dev team to ask for permission for EACH mod made outside of the team to be included.' is not exactly true.....
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It
IS exactly true as I stated that for each modification produced by this community externally to GWX... that was
included in GWX... permissions were actively sought. Regarding members who have gone to other places and are not reachable... who produced good work... Should those works be lost? Honestly, for those individuals I suppose we could have simply added the work and claimed it as our own with little repercussion if any. Instead we used the best available credits and actively sought those credits.
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Originally Posted by Chock
On the subject of sending emails and PMs to modders to ask permission for inclusion of their mod, a failure on their part to respond should not be taken as a blanket permission from them that you are good to go. As I've pointed out, anyone can do what they like with anything I mod and post on the 'net, but that's just me, and I always stick a read me in there pointing out that some of the stuff I've used might ultimately belong to UBISOFT or whoever......
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Everything except original works and intellectual property added to SH3 not using Ubisoft files as a base to work from... certainly does appear to "belong to Ubisoft." We understand that. However, what we refer to are mods produced by the community. If our work helps the Ubisoft Devs build SH5... Then mission accomplished!
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Originally Posted by Chock
I think if people make stuff available, they kind of forfeit the right to treat it as 'their ball' which no-one can tamper with, but I do think using the copyrighted work of people outside of the original game files, which do not fall into this category is not a very good idea and ultimately weakens the main point you make, which as I say, is fine by me.
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So you imply that there should be no rules or even guidelines to establish a way forward.
Well, we also understand that GWX is easy to shoot at because it is a BIG FREAKIN' TARGET, LOL. Every Tom, Joe, and Harry is an armchair expert. We've taken just as much flak as anyone else over the inclusion of Das Boot sound bites etc...
Our true interest is pushing the simulation (and the developers) to set the bar higher and higher...
but to do it in such a way that we recognize those who helped it go the distance... After all, all of those guys did what they did for the love of the game... for free... even if he was only "John Q Modder" and only modified a single file.
They deserve a mention.
In the same breath... it is simply bad form... to waltz in and make an actively supported mod your own without common decency.