[AVGWarhawk]

Agreed. No-one wants to come in here and see the negativity day after day after day, but I think you have to take the good with the bad, to a reasonable extent

This is a large gray area...what is a reasonable extent? Some peoples reasonable extent does not go as far as others. We do the best we can and come up with the best course of action. Not always the best for sure, but a lot of decisions in our lives are always the best. So you live with it, correct it and move on.

It has to be said, however that the way this game has been received by the community has been overall, less than positive. Negativity will more than likely continue for the forseeable future, and Ubisoft only have themselves to blame for that. There are more ways to support a game than just by praising it, as I'm sure you can appreciate

I agree 100% and do appreciate this point of view. I'm one who likes to point out the good things as well as bad. More so with the good because I see more good in the game than bad. Just now, attacking a convoy, got sunk and I did not see one DC dropped . Dev's...what's up? I had some bomb damage from aircraft but not enough to warrant going home! So, yes, the game has issues and the Dev need to know about them.

Thats the whole issue, not there there are differences of opinion, but the namecalling, the insults, the slurs etc. Then the problem is compounded when the Moderators appear to support the ProSHIV crowd and come down on the AntiSHIV crowd, even though both were guilty of the same insulting behaviour. JCC even joined in with the sarcasm and condescending attitude. How does that look to the community? Only positive comments allowed, and although we tell you to be polite, we can be rude if we like without consequence?

Yes, the name calling is elementry school level. To automatically shelve a poster as a troll because one does not like the post is wrong. If the same poster contiuously repeats negative on every post then he is a bother to other members. I guess the internet culture has developed this word of troll. Demeaning, yes! I'm guessing it is supposed to be demeaning. As far as JCC, like everyone else, he has his limits. More than likely the post this occurred in was probably not the first run in with the forum member. The behind the scene PM feature brings all walks of life to your PM inbox. They are not always the kindest PM either. I agree that sarcasm is not always the best answer. But, when constantly ignored and a poster tests the waters to how far he can go is very boarish at best. It is just that, how far can we get away with things. So, when said poster continues to defy moderators after explaining in a nice tone not to do what he is doing, time to make an example. Again, this normally builds up to a point and then we call it quits.

To which I would reply, what happens when the Moderator's break the rules and themselves are the ones throwing the trash? Is there a reason we should accept that we will be consequenced for our misdeeds but they won't? Is there some reason why now I feel that I'm toeing a very fine line, when all I'm asking for is equality and fairplay? Is there a reason why trust has been broken and no-one except yourself seems to want to address that fact? Moderators are members too, with the same responsibility to be as fair and honest as the rest of us. Everything you have said above is 100% right, you won't hear me dispute any of it. This is what I am trying to say, but this needs to be applied to ALL sections of the community, Camp A, Camp B and the Moderators too.

Neal steps in if the moderators get cranky. Then again, why would anyone want to be a moderator, free of charge, usually in the gunsights of forum members who are looking for a misstep? Got me! Neal asked me if I was interested because he like my posts and it was all civil, respectful of every poster on the forum. I'll admit I'm the most sarcastic b*stard out there and often bite my lip. As far as feeling you are toeing the line on any post or thread, then in the back of your mind something you have written is not good. When I post, if even the slightest idea of what I have written is off base, offensive or derogatory needs to be reexamined and written over. If nothing you have written is off base, offensive or derogatory then the feeling of toeing the line is not present.

So I could write, 'Karl, you are an egg head and do not know what on this mud ball we call Earth you are talking about'.

I stop and think, Karl is gonna get a rise out of this one. Let the keyboard smashing begin!!!

I'm baiting you, yes? Members like to bait and hope the fish takes it so the beatings can begin.

Now, if I just write, 'Karl, I think what you are seeing is incorrect and this is why.....' does not inflame you at all. There is not bait other than bait to get a intelligent discussion to start and some clarity on the subject.

No different than you describe above. I've got a lot of respect for how you have put things in your post, and extend my thanks that you are willing to address this issue, and get the thoughts of others. Thats how things are intended to be, is it not? I see the biggest problem as being that this was not done, that the perception of unfairness and undue bias some of the Moderators have shown to one group compared to the other is the really great tragedy in all of this. Speaking for myself, the troublemakers in both camps need to be told quite firmly to tone it down and play nice, and if the problem persists take the appropriate action. It needs to made plain that all views are welcome, if they are posted constructively and politely and that if the rules are broken that there will be consequences, for Mod's aswell as members. Lastly, I believe an apology of sorts is neccessary to restore faith and trust in the Moderators, something which I feel has been badly shaken, especially in the light of JCC's sarcastic rant and the obvious double standard being applied. Humility goes a long way towards mending fences.

Yes, there seems to be some unbiased teams. The team that really likes the game just happens to have the moderators on it....I'm on the team as well, but heck, I'm moderator for SH3 forums . I have no authority on the SH4 forum at all. I'm just a common Joe but have Moderator under my sig of some very dark and mysterious dude in a cap . Thus far, I see that it looks like you are badly shaken with JCC saracastic rant. I have not seen to much from anyone else....then again, I really do not look for it. The restoration of faith needs to come from both sides. In good faith members are allowed to join this private forum and follow the rules, when the good faith is broken then moderators step in. Same with moderators, if the good faith afforded by Neal that we will do our very best to keep it civil is broken, Neal steps in.

So I need to ask this question concerning this thread and what you have going on inside to spurn this thread....what is it you are ultimately looking for? If it is to keep both members and moderators on the same playing field, this will be kind of tough. Someone has to referee. If it is for moderators to keep a unbiased tone. No problem, 9 out 10 responses of mine are unbiased.(I just opened a can of worms for someone to find #10 post that is not unbiased ).

So, ultimately, what is it that you want done or looking to accomplish with this thread?