[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Less eager and less enjoyable. Many forums I do not participate in because of the negativity that is constant. Many forums with members who look for a misguided idea by posters so the beatings can begin. Been there and done that. Tired of the brow beatings. Talk about emotionally drained after a statement is misconstrued. Instead of a response of 'your incorrect on this because', the poster get a 16 page dissertation on why he is a dope and really should consider basket weaving as a career. Constant negativity breeds negativity.

There are attempts to bring threads back to topic and a lot usually get side tracked and more so with negativity. This forum is for helping, contributing good content and friendship. It is not a anger therapy management group for members having a bad day or bad game experience.

Agreed. No-one wants to come in here and see the negativity day after day after day, but I think you have to take the good with the bad, to a reasonable extent. That doesn't mean we should accept the "OMG Ubisoft made my crew look gay, this sucks balls!!!!" type of threads, but certainly there have to be allowances made for constructive criticism of perceived flaws, innacuracies bugs and what not. Not for the sake of griping, but for the sake of working together as a community, as a source of feedback and dialogue for the developers workin on patches, bugfixes and dare I say it, an SHV. I don't think there is anyone who would disagree with that. It has to be said, however that the way this game has been received by the community has been overall, less than positive. Negativity will more than likely continue for the forseeable future, and Ubisoft only have themselves to blame for that. There are more ways to support a game than just by praising it, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I do not understand why there sides being taken. This is not a game of team against team. A "TROLL" to me is a poster that runs down the list of threads and posts negatively on every one of them, sits back and waits for responses that he/she can expound on with more negativity and flaming.

I would agree with your definition of a Troll, but what this has been reduced to is a situation where everytime someone criticises the game, he is labelled a Troll and everytime someone praises the game, he is labelled a Fanboy by certain elements of the ProSHIV and AntiSHIV crowds respectively. Thats the whole issue, not there there are differences of opinion, but the namecalling, the insults, the slurs etc. Then the problem is compounded when the Moderators appear to support the ProSHIV crowd and come down on the AntiSHIV crowd, even though both were guilty of the same insulting behaviour. JCC even joined in with the sarcasm and condescending attitude. How does that look to the community? Only positive comments allowed, and although we tell you to be polite, we can be rude if we like without consequence?

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I do not look forward to reading post after post of negativity and specifically from the same forum member. Again, this is not elementry school and little Timmy is having issues so it is ok for him to act out against others...not to worry, the counselors(moderators) will correct him. When the moderator does correct(repeatedly), the moderator is some sort of fruitcake. Furthermore, when I personally see members respond to the trollers such as "we know we have heard this from you 1000 times", "that inflammatory comment does not help my inquiry", etc. this troller is now bothering members and becoming a nuisance to this forum member. Just like life, if a neighbor is doing something in your community that is bothersome to other community members. The members talk to this individual. If there is no change and something legally can be done, the community as a whole will contact the authorities. This individual in the community creating the problem may not agree with the local laws and complain about the authorities but eventually he will have to comply because the rule states he must or consequences are to follow. Here at Subsim, we are a community, we have rules and trolling(bothering other members) will get a response from moderators(I wish I had a shiny badge). This forum is not different. You would not put up with you neighbor throwing his trash in your yard. Is there a reason we need to put up with a members trash being thrown in this communities yard?

To which I would reply, what happens when the Moderator's break the rules and themselves are the ones throwing the trash? Is there a reason we should accept that we will be consequenced for our misdeeds but they won't? Is there some reason why now I feel that I'm toeing a very fine line, when all I'm asking for is equality and fairplay? Is there a reason why trust has been broken and no-one except yourself seems to want to address that fact? Moderators are members too, with the same responsibility to be as fair and honest as the rest of us. Everything you have said above is 100% right, you won't hear me dispute any of it. This is what I am trying to say, but this needs to be applied to ALL sections of the community, Camp A, Camp B and the Moderators too.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Well, sir, any suggestion on overcoming the 'shortfall'? How would you handle it?

No different than you describe above. I've got a lot of respect for how you have put things in your post, and extend my thanks that you are willing to address this issue, and get the thoughts of others. Thats how things are intended to be, is it not? I see the biggest problem as being that this was not done, that the perception of unfairness and undue bias some of the Moderators have shown to one group compared to the other is the really great tragedy in all of this. Speaking for myself, the troublemakers in both camps need to be told quite firmly to tone it down and play nice, and if the problem persists take the appropriate action. It needs to made plain that all views are welcome, if they are posted constructively and politely and that if the rules are broken that there will be consequences, for Mod's aswell as members. Lastly, I believe an apology of sorts is neccessary to restore faith and trust in the Moderators, something which I feel has been badly shaken, especially in the light of JCC's sarcastic rant and the obvious double standard being applied. Humility goes a long way towards mending fences.