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Originally Posted by TteFAboB
the best Turkish soldiers were kidnapped Europeans and while Muslims got close to victory their armies were defeated in the end - .
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pointless argument. At Vienna the turks were defeated by weather, and they were just so short away from capturing the city (the walls was already made to collapse and the hole in the wall then was desperately defended). And in France they were superior, too - but then were led by greedy generals who did not want to give up all their spoils and loots and acted inorder to protect these treasure, so it all was not synchonized. Karl's army was inferior, and very much so. By all means - the Europeans were extremely lucky. If both battles would have gone with a bit more of reason and accoprding to hwat was to be expected, we all would be Islamic today, no doubt.
Point is: it was no superiority, but simply luck that saved our ancestors, and us.