[Sailor Steve]

I never know where to start with threads like this. I tend to be more conservative than liberal, and to a point I even agree with ASWNut and Waste-Gate. The problem I have is when anybody on either side claims to know, absolutely, what's right and what's wrong, whether morally or with the country. Even the founders didn't claim that kind of knowledge.

Yes, the wording in the Declaration proclaims our natural right of self-government, even to the point of armed revolution; but if you know anything about the events leading up to the War of Independence, you'll know that the original patriots did everything they could to circumvent Parliament while still maintaining loyalty to the King. In effect, they wanted independent government while still remaining British, which would have made America the first Commonwealth nation. They didn't declare independence until the King himself proclaimed them to be in a state of rebellion and sent in the regular army.

In an thread a few weeks ago I said that this wasn't the first time people on one side or another have said the country is "going to hell in a handbasket". That time I was told "No, this time it really is"! Well, people thought so back then too.

Yes, congress raises taxes and spends too much, and blames the president. I didn't hear any conservatives complaining when a Republican congress did the same thing and blamed Clinton.

I visit other boards. One of them is overly conservative and any time anyone says anything remotely liberal everyone shouts "Get back under your bridge, troll"! Another is so liberal the favorite game is "Let's see how our resident righties try to explain this one"! It's the same game you guys are playing: I'm right, you're wrong and I'm the only one who can save the day. The only problem is, you're "knowledge" is mostly opinion, and you are incapable of reasonable debate, only standing in front of your pulpit and preaching.

You quote the Declaration Of Independence, but do you even know what day Congress voted for Independence? Have you ever read what Thomas Jefferson wrote about his personal feelings? John Adams? James Madison? Do you know what those men really thought about the country they made? How about their individual feelings on, say, Church and State? Slavery? Have you ever read Jefferson's Summary View of the Rights of British America? Notes on the State of Virginia?

You claim to "know" what's wrong, but mostly what you spout is opinion. Try an honest debate sometime. You might learn something.

Oh, wait; you already know all the answers.