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Abraham · 02-10-07, 06:47 AM

Funny how this discussion pops up again now SHIV is about to be launched. Two years ago we had almost exactly the same thread when SHIII was introduced.

When comparing the Gato's/Balao's/Tench with the German boats we should remember that they were designed with completely different goals in mind. We should also realise that the origin of the US fleet boats was a German design.

The Germans, based on their experiences in WW I, went for an agile, simple sub to cut Britains commercial life lines in a battle that was to be fought on the Western Approaches and the North Atlantic. The VII was ideal for such a campaign.

The US saw Japan as a potential threat to it's supremacy in the Pacific. In case of a future war the Navy rightly predicted a Japanese expansion in a South Eastern direction to secure raw materials, especially the oil fields of Sumatra (Duch Indies). In order to realise that goal the Philippines had to be conquered by Japan.
The US Navy Plan Orange foresaw an excursion of the main US battle fleet towards the Philippines Sea to intervene with Japanese landings. The idea was that both battlefleets would clash and fight it out.
Fleet submarines were intended as - next to - invisable scouts to lead the battle fleet towards the enemy. Furthermore they would try to intercept Japanese capital ships during their approach to the US fleet. Finally they would attack retreating Japanese units or reinforcements.

Thus the US needed a very long range boat with a speed comparable to contemporary battleships.
In 1919 the US had acquired the U 140U-Kreuzer (sub-cruiser) as reparation payments from Germany. Thhe specifications are: draught 1930 tons; armarement: 6 torpedo tubes and 2 x 6" deck gun; range: 13.000 miles.
This served as a prototype for the US Fleet boats.

Because the US battlefleet was put out of action by the attack on Pearl Harbour, the Navy had to fight a different battle than anticipated. US carrier groups fought defensive battles at the outskirts of the expanded Japanese Empire - with some offensive raids to test the Japanese reaction - and only submarines could wage an agressive war.
It took the US about 9 - 12 monthes to get its act together, but as from ultimo 1943 the US sub fleet was engaged in a total war against Japanes merchant shipping, a role the fleet boats were never designed for.
They were extremely effective in this role, accounting for more than 50% of the Japanese merchant losses...

02-10-07, 06:47 AM	#63
Abraham Eternal Patrol Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gato vs. VIIC Funny how this discussion pops up again now SHIV is about to be launched. Two years ago we had almost exactly the same thread when SHIII was introduced. When comparing the Gato's/Balao's/Tench with the German boats we should remember that they were designed with completely different goals in mind. We should also realise that the origin of the US fleet boats was a German design. The Germans, based on their experiences in WW I, went for an agile, simple sub to cut Britains commercial life lines in a battle that was to be fought on the Western Approaches and the North Atlantic. The VII was ideal for such a campaign. The US saw Japan as a potential threat to it's supremacy in the Pacific. In case of a future war the Navy rightly predicted a Japanese expansion in a South Eastern direction to secure raw materials, especially the oil fields of Sumatra (Duch Indies). In order to realise that goal the Philippines had to be conquered by Japan. The US Navy Plan Orange foresaw an excursion of the main US battle fleet towards the Philippines Sea to intervene with Japanese landings. The idea was that both battlefleets would clash and fight it out. Fleet submarines were intended as - next to - invisable scouts to lead the battle fleet towards the enemy. Furthermore they would try to intercept Japanese capital ships during their approach to the US fleet. Finally they would attack retreating Japanese units or reinforcements. Thus the US needed a very long range boat with a speed comparable to contemporary battleships. In 1919 the US had acquired the U 140U-Kreuzer (sub-cruiser) as reparation payments from Germany. Thhe specifications are: draught 1930 tons; armarement: 6 torpedo tubes and 2 x 6" deck gun; range: 13.000 miles. This served as a prototype for the US Fleet boats. Because the US battlefleet was put out of action by the attack on Pearl Harbour, the Navy had to fight a different battle than anticipated. US carrier groups fought defensive battles at the outskirts of the expanded Japanese Empire - with some offensive raids to test the Japanese reaction - and only submarines could wage an agressive war. It took the US about 9 - 12 monthes to get its act together, but as from ultimo 1943 the US sub fleet was engaged in a total war against Japanes merchant shipping, a role the fleet boats were never designed for. They were extremely effective in this role, accounting for more than 50% of the Japanese merchant losses... __________________ RIP Abraham Last edited by Abraham; 02-10-07 at 11:56 AM.