[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Abraham

...pure discrimination on the basis of religious affiliation!

Wrong. I talk of political affiliation! You don't get even the basis of my argument. You do not understand how far-leading consequences it has that Islam does not differ in the way the West does between religion, and politics, and sociology. It's conception of a social community does not compare to that of modern Western communities - in no way. In Islam, Islam is ALL.

And that leads to a conception of a worl to live in that is too alien, too radically diffrent from what the Wetsern mind would like to see as if it could accept that such a conception couold even exist. That's why people like you with the best of intentions try their best to ignore it or try to evade realising it. It cannot be what shall not be.

What you want is a critical relation to what you consider to be Islam - but only your own conception of it. And under no circmstances the "critical" in your relation shall be accepted to lead as far as open confrontation, and conflict. That would mean to fight. You/we/the West does not will any fight anymore. That way you make sure that you deal with something that your own set of mental tools of analysis, negotiation and reason can handle. You are not adressing the real thing, and you are not aware of that. You and the wstern society in general does not have the tools to deal with Islam on it's own terms. No wonder then that what you consider to be the virtues of Western culture of mind and reason - is perceived as the most weak and disgusting by Islam, a weakness that is to be exploited and increased - and that is what is happening. We all know that when it gets to the real deal, the West will not be willing to face an open confrontation. If Islams pressure only becomes strong enough, our institutions will bow to it, will fall to it, will surrender. In parts this is already happening inside nations, and on a bigger scale inside the administrative structures of the EU. Islam ism willing to push that far, knowing that we will shy away. It's the fourth attempt to make Europe it's own, and this time it will win it all. Thanks to our own naivety and self-perception of being so irresistable as a cultural system that nobody could resist to wish becoming like we are. And this arrogance is what will destroy us. And it will be a long-lasting darkness that follows.

You call the behavior of that man arrogant. But his attitude is not an exception, it is a rule. It has not been the first time I clashed with Muhammedans in public, and hopefully it will not be the last. I also had debates in privbate, or with colleagues. "Islam is better than your world, and it simply will outsit you" - this attitude is what I meet - by far - the most often. Of course, this will not make you think or worry. Like Blair is not worried that such a huge ammount of Muhammedans in Britain want the Sharia replacing the British law system, and even accept violance if it helps that cause.

You have choosen your stand very unwisely, as I see it. It reminds me of psychologists and sociologists, many of whom also think they are perfectly equipped to totally understand man, without limits, and know no limits themseves in their ability to help or to change a man's life and attitude and perception. I call it the "God-complex" of psychologists, or the "syndrom of omni-potential helpers". To think that one's own ability to deal well with the other knows no limits,a nd that one knows him better than he does know himself. - But truth is - we are not half as attractive for Islam as we believe, to motivate it to change itself. No, not even that much. Our only attractiveness lies in that we are the next prey.

And if the kindly friendly Muhammedan neighbour living in that house is aware of that or not, does not change the going of the great game a bit. In Germany in the past, most Germans were no Nazis. but still a majority of them ended up in direcly or indirectly helping the regime to survive and going on with it's political and military goals. Because many thought deeds were not necessary, that they were too weak anyway, and that it is enough not to like Hitler. See where it led to. I oppose fascism. And for that reason, I nessarily must oppose Muhammedanism and any other kind of religious or politcal totalitarianism as well. It is a contradiction in itself to oppose the one, and accept the other.