SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - Why it would be better to Command Japanese Subs

heartc · 12-12-06, 01:41 AM

That "Give us Jap Boats!!!111!" thing is still going on? Oh my.

Look, it's really simple: There were only two large-scale underwater warfare campaigns conducted in WWII: The U-Boat Battle in the Atlantic and the US Sub Campaign in the PTO. Plenty other nations deployed subs in one way or another, but only in such a limited way and numbers that you would have a hard time doing a campaign for it in a simulation, unless you want to throw all resemblence of historical accuracy overboard.

Since that "atmosphere" thing keeps coming up, about U-Boats having a different aura around them than Fleet Subs - true, in some way, it's completely different. The environment of the Atlantic is totally different to the Pacific, the enemy ships look different, the convoy sizes are different, the enemy tactics and equipment and that of your own boat is different, and, after all, there is a different atmosphere from "Jawohl, Herr Kaleun!" to "Up Periscope!". Usually, when I get into paying a U-Boat sim, I have zero interest in playing a Subsim at the same time. AND VISE-VERSA. What you people do is I think you miss out on something if you dismiss driving a Fleet Sub just because it might feel different.
I get the feeling many of the critics never played SHI. That was one KICK ASS PTO subsim. It had a fully functioning TDC, SD / SJ PPI radar etc, and it was able to transport the "Pacific mood" to the player pretty well. It felt totally different to AOD, but it was not any worse. In fact, from a technical point of view, it was more sophisticated, since you could enter manual fire solutions for the first time in a subsim.

What you need to do is either give this game a shot, or even better, start reading up somewhat on the US Fleet-Sub Pacific campaign. That should get you into the mood, and should also remove all of this "It was SOOOO easy and BOOORING!!11!" stuff. Submarine warfare in general was NEVER an easy thing. In the Pacific, the challenge was simply of a different kind in some ways. Just because the US Navy Sub-Campaign was not litterally as SUICIDAL as the Kriegsmarine ones, it doesn't mean it was easy or not dangerous. You will die plenty of time, count on it. In fact, for they had better equipment relative to the U-Boats in part, and the enemy ASW tactics were not as sophisticated (which mostly boils down to no rdr equipped night fighters / bombers attacking the Boats), US Skippers did A LOT of daredevil ****. Like, trying to enter enemy harbors pretty often or going all out against oncoming destroyers. In fact, there was a Skipper (I think of the USS "Harder") who made them his prime-targets to remove them out the inventory of the IJN. Also, catching taskforces moving at 27 knots, with constant aircover during the day, is something which will prove quite difficult. And don't forget you will often operate in shallow waters, with little room to maneuver, being able to see landfall either side of your sub.

In my opinion, if you really dismiss a US-Fleet Sub scenario as boring even before you played it, you must be either ignorant or have a general problem of a different kind which I will not go into here, but which seems quite obvious with some posters.

12-12-06, 01:41 AM	#60
heartc Samurai Navy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Munich Posts: 562 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	That "Give us Jap Boats!!!111!" thing is still going on? Oh my. Look, it's really simple: There were only two large-scale underwater warfare campaigns conducted in WWII: The U-Boat Battle in the Atlantic and the US Sub Campaign in the PTO. Plenty other nations deployed subs in one way or another, but only in such a limited way and numbers that you would have a hard time doing a campaign for it in a simulation, unless you want to throw all resemblence of historical accuracy overboard. Since that "atmosphere" thing keeps coming up, about U-Boats having a different aura around them than Fleet Subs - true, in some way, it's completely different. The environment of the Atlantic is totally different to the Pacific, the enemy ships look different, the convoy sizes are different, the enemy tactics and equipment and that of your own boat is different, and, after all, there is a different atmosphere from "Jawohl, Herr Kaleun!" to "Up Periscope!". Usually, when I get into paying a U-Boat sim, I have zero interest in playing a Subsim at the same time. AND VISE-VERSA. What you people do is I think you miss out on something if you dismiss driving a Fleet Sub just because it might feel different. I get the feeling many of the critics never played SHI. That was one KICK ASS PTO subsim. It had a fully functioning TDC, SD / SJ PPI radar etc, and it was able to transport the "Pacific mood" to the player pretty well. It felt totally different to AOD, but it was not any worse. In fact, from a technical point of view, it was more sophisticated, since you could enter manual fire solutions for the first time in a subsim. What you need to do is either give this game a shot, or even better, start reading up somewhat on the US Fleet-Sub Pacific campaign. That should get you into the mood, and should also remove all of this "It was SOOOO easy and BOOORING!!11!" stuff. Submarine warfare in general was NEVER an easy thing. In the Pacific, the challenge was simply of a different kind in some ways. Just because the US Navy Sub-Campaign was not litterally as SUICIDAL as the Kriegsmarine ones, it doesn't mean it was easy or not dangerous. You will die plenty of time, count on it. In fact, for they had better equipment relative to the U-Boats in part, and the enemy ASW tactics were not as sophisticated (which mostly boils down to no rdr equipped night fighters / bombers attacking the Boats), US Skippers did A LOT of daredevil ****. Like, trying to enter enemy harbors pretty often or going all out against oncoming destroyers. In fact, there was a Skipper (I think of the USS "Harder") who made them his prime-targets to remove them out the inventory of the IJN. Also, catching taskforces moving at 27 knots, with constant aircover during the day, is something which will prove quite difficult. And don't forget you will often operate in shallow waters, with little room to maneuver, being able to see landfall either side of your sub. In my opinion, if you really dismiss a US-Fleet Sub scenario as boring even before you played it, you must be either ignorant or have a general problem of a different kind which I will not go into here, but which seems quite obvious with some posters.