[TteFAboB]

To joe: I was just pulling your leg.

Originally Posted by DAB

Did I? I mentioned Steed once in my last post, and that was a challenge for him to come up with five "British" charactor traits that are evident across the British Nations. Where did I 'throw him'?

When you talk about immigration, here:

Whats your problem!?

Then on Asylum here:

However, because everyone seems to have a not in my backyard attitude...

What's your problem STEED? And he does seem to have a not in my backyard attitude, if only he knew this is putting asylum children in jail, or does he? Of course, if you say you haven't meant any of this at STEED, then this case is already closed.

Originally Posted by DAB

Took my a while to see what you were getting at here. You had me trawling through my posts for any reference to Judism.

I'm sure there are extremists in any society, and there probably is some nutcase who wants to kill me for something or other but anyway.

The times when I have flown into Tel Aviv, I've walked around the streets of that city and found it to be very safe city. Even traveling into East
Jerusalem lacks any of the connitations you get from the media. Which begs a question. If all Muslims are bloodthursty animals looking to kill Jews or Christians... why is it that so many 67's (thats the local term for a Palestinian Muslim) living there have security passes that allow them to travel freely around Israel. Surely they are such a dangurous threat that they must be locked up and surrounded constantly by soldiers.

I will not go over this thread and search for other people's claims, so I can only speak for myself here. As I did not stated that all Muslims are bloodthursty animals looking to kill Jews or Christians that question will remain begging. Again, I do not speak for anybody else here, but I also haven't suggested that all Muslims are such a dangerous threat that they must be locked up and surrounded constantly by soldiers.

There's a sophist trick: read what isn't written, propose what wasn't called for, concluded what couldn't be concluded.

You've mentioned something about working on politics, have you ever considered a political career?

:p

Originally Posted by DAB

Is it because maybe the Israeli government acknoweldges these people are human beings and that the majority of them have never committed a crime. The only other explanation is that the Israeli authorities are idiots... I don't believe that, anyone care to argue that point!?

What is this supposed to mean? That the terror attacks or failed attempts in Britain, France, Germany and Spain happened because said governments didn't acknowledged these people as human beings and that the majority of them have never committed a crime? I disagree and agree. I disagree because the Israelis don't do more for them than the French do. But I agree if I take my understanding of what one has to do to acknowledge these people as human beings: that is giving them the treatment the 1st generation received. And this wasn't done with the 2nd. So that's true, the policy the 2nd generation received is inhumane or more inhumane than the first one. But that's no excuse. Irish, Italian, Japanese and other immigrants got it much worse in the USA and never exploded anything.

Sure the majority of "these people" (Muslims, immigrants, etc.) never committed any crime, I don't think any government will dispute that. Nor did the majority of the members of the Nazi party, or the Communists, or the Fascists nor did their victims commit any real crime either. Yes, crime is an exception not the rule.

These are or would like to, however, and Israel has become safer only because they are cracked upon: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/...ity_britain_dc

Originally Posted by DAB

No its just the Catholic and Protestant Terrorists are still caught up in Northern Ireland. And yes there is still a problem there. Last week, a young women was doused with Petrol and set alight. Her crime, to date someone from a different demonination OF THE SAME BLOODY RELIGION!!!

That's not a conflict born out of anti-religious expressions, as if that was a valid excuse to go out killing people, but it is indeed a very important example. I do not intend to reduce the significance, the pain, grief and sorrow nor do I seek to get the corpses rolling in their graves, I do not seek to apologize, forgive, ignore, justify or condone anything.

But it puts things into perspective when we notice that the death toll of the three decade conflict between 1969 and 2001 (3,523) is 550 bodies more than what the Muslim terrorists killed in a single day of 2001 (2,973). What could they do in three decades then?

Source is wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles - down at the bottom, they took it from "Sutton Index of Deaths"; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11 - they took the numbers from various sources.

We're not counting the attacks in Iraq where Iraqis are killing Iraqis (Shi'ite, Sunni, Kurd, other) nor the attacks in India or Indonesia or the terrorism in Sudan, Ethiopia, Turkey, Morocco, Algeria, Israel-Gaza-Syria-Lebanon. I don't know if the Irish statistic includes disrupted terror plots but even without them, and with all due respect to the victims of the conflict, Islamic terror casts a shadow over Northern Ireland.

Originally Posted by DAB

For someone who started your post with a broadside claiming I was putting words into peoples mouths, your doing a good job of scoring your own goals. Since when did the forcible removal of religious icons and the playing down of religious festivals have anything to do with multiculturalism - surely thats monoculturalism on a orwellian scale.

And for the record, the people I have heard calling for the abolition of Christmas tend to be Jehova's Witnesses and Puritains.

Who knows, I don't care for the whole multiculturalism part, there's alot of words flying around here. My point with that was about the motivational effect it should've had on fanatics since you were saying that the words written in this thread could motivate a young Muslim to embrace radicalism, unless there are no Christian fanatics in Britain or none that felt incensed by that decision. My point is that whatever anybody says, that's not an excuse for Muslim terrorists since all things being equal Christians aren't blowing buses and subways in Jehova's Witness and Puritan neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by DAB

Well if you want specifics.

• We will ignore STEED's highly inaccruate estimation of his prison sentence.
• HunterICX in post 6 referring to Muslim Terrorist Dogs. Very pedestrian insults.
• Post 7. What the hell does Kaptain mean by True British population. He didn't help matters when he said you had to be born in England (post 10 I think)
• Post 14, Line One - such a sweeping generalisation, it was close to incitement under the UK's religious hatred laws. Doesn't help with the last line, what the hell does something that happened 1500 years ago have to do with the present debate.
• Post 15, saying that living your life acording to Islamic teaching is incompatable with British Life.
• Post 20: Steed saying that terrorist will do 15-20 years. 40 years is the minimum tarriff!!!
• Kiwi_2005 posting something that the Conservative Party has derrided as Racist. (before the flame war about me accusing people of things, look at the careful way I posted this bullet point)

Thanks. That was really just for clarity.

Originally Posted by DAB

Thats funny, its going on the office noticeboard. It could almost be taken from the writings of many third world dictators and left wing revolutionaries. "We must save the country from those who are saying something different from us"

Well, count me out of any "we". Brits do as they please and must ask no permission from me. I'm only interested in observing the reality and expressing it, I cannot narrate history if I'm an active part of it, involved in the process, I could give my account but it would be limited and partial and somebody else would have to take my words and put them back into perspective. So I could care less about "saving the country". I'm not like those naive kids fresh out of college who believe the world only has problems because they don't have the power in their hands to fix them as they believe to know and be able to apply all the solutions. Incitement to hatred or crime is a crime. If left unpunished, then eventually it will no longer be a crime. I only respect and tolerate the "difference" that respects and tolerates me in return. In the case of extremist Imams, they would not guarantee me freedom of speech if they had the power to do so, as their brothers in most of the Muslim world do not.