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Old 10-17-06, 06:51 PM   #71
Skybird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by August
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredbass
It just doesn't make sense not to agree with our ideals. The political ideals of the U.S.A. are quite simple. We are a democracy, which is a government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
Fred you have to understand that most of these Europeans cannot even concieve of such things. Their entire history is filled with despotic kings and dictators who ruled their subjects by the sword.

We are alien to them and they will never understand us. Worse we understand them all too well and that infuriates them to no end.
We are just blinded by your shining armour, that's all...

You seem to think all reality is exactly like your ancestors have written down rules on pieces of paper, and because they show up to be like this and that in that text, realility would be like that. You believe too easy, and are determined not to see the many distortions, aberations and violations that have taken place since then. By paper-form, the US looks wonderful. By judging it how it once has been meant to be (in a different world, under different situational conditions) it is great. But today is 2006, globalised trade, megalomania, imperial structures, strong plutocratic elites. the simple fact that Iraq war 2003 took place illustrated how badly damaged your system already is, and how damaged your rules and institutions already are. Hollowing out, this phrase is always on my mind when thinking about the US and the EU.

and on that theatralic carrier thing again, AL's hinting to the Wikipedia really sums it up nicely:
Quote:
Bush's historic jet landing on the carrier, the first by a sitting president, was criticized by opponents as an overly theatrical and expensive stunt. For instance, they pointed to the fact that the carrier was well within range of Bush's helicopter, and that a jet landing was not needed. [1] Originally the White House had claimed the carrier was to be too far for a helicopter landing, and a jet would be needed to reach it. On the day of the speech, the Lincoln was only 30 miles from shore but the administration still decided to go ahead with the jet landing. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer admitted that the president "could have helicoptered, but the plan was already in place. Plus, he wanted to see a landing the way aviators see a landing". [2] It was never explained why the President couldn't have simply visited the ship while it was in port (although, if he followed usual Presidential travel procedures, he still would have had to use a helicopter to make the final leg of his journey.) The Lincoln made a scheduled stop in Pearl Harbor shortly before the speech and returned to its home base in Everett, Washington on May 6, 2003.

The banner stating "Mission Accomplished" was the main source of controversy and criticism. One crew member stated the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier's mission (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself and the White House claimed that the banner was requested by the crew of the ship. Afterwards, the administration and naval sources stated that the banner was the Navy's idea, White House staff members made the banner, and it was hung by the U.S. Navy personnel.

The banner stating "Mission Accomplished" was the main source of controversy and criticism. One crew member stated the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier's mission (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself and the White House claimed that the banner was requested by the crew of the ship. Afterwards, the administration and naval sources stated that the banner was the Navy's idea, White House staff members made the banner, and it was hung by the U.S. Navy personnel. [3] This version has since been disputed. The event was carefully choreographed by administration staffers, including positioning cameras to capture the president with the banner over his shoulder. According to John Dickerson of TIME magazine, the White House later admitted they actually hung the banner. [4] In spite of the controversy, it has continued to be standard practice to hang banners with patriotic slogans behind President Bush, especially when he speaks to military gatherings.
The event was criticized by many as premature — especially later as the guerrilla war began. Subsequently, the White House released a statement alleging that the sign and Bush's visit referred to the initial invasion of Iraq. The speech itself noted:
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous." [5]
However the speech also claimed that:
"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."[6] When he received an advance copy of the speech, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld took care to remove any use of the phrase "Mission Accomplished" in the speech itself. Later, when journalist Bob Woodward asked him about his changes to the speech, Rumsfeld responded:"I was in Baghdad, and I was given a draft of that thing to look at. And I just died, and I said my God, it's too conclusive. And I fixed it and sent it back…they fixed the speech, but not the sign."
AL,
I misunderstood a whole paragraph after first reading it, now realise what it really says. Thus, I correct my former acceptance of your correction and reject to take your point as stated before!
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Last edited by Skybird; 10-17-06 at 07:06 PM.
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