hmmm, interesting. I also agree that some people view subs as "king" of the game/seas, and that they think they are invincible. but one thing with the submarine, is that once you fire a torpedo and it explodes, there is now a long 'blue-out' period where it becomes very hard to find anything with sonar. this can allow a sly submarine commander(
) to commence his escape, wich will start complicating things for the surface vessel. and if the sub gets below the sonic layer, you can kiss it good bye. but what you said is also true, but for a submarine commander to put himself in that position is not a very smart commander. they must think ahead before firing a torpedo, so they can get off a shot with minimal counter detection. A lowly kilo class can even sink a carrier in a battle group, while its the same for the surface vessel: a lowly corvette could sink a Seawolf if in the right position. like i just said, if a sub commander is smart enough and thinks about these things, it will be very difficult for a surface vessel to get a hit on the sub. and of course, a not so bright sub commander will almost certainly get himself and his crew killed if what you said happens. So what it pretty much comes down to is whichever commander is more intellegent will win.