[scandium]

Originally Posted by Iceman

You really believe this? You never cease to amaze me.You are like talking to a wall...a wall with no eyes or ears...no eyes to see the hate from the muslim world nor ears to hear the CHANTS of DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO ISRAEL......I know it does not bother you because it has not affected you yet in whatever tiny crack of Canada you live in but perhaps when some 2-3000 people are killed in one swoop in your country you may change your perceptions but I don't think it will...You are just smoking the pipe and dreaming of a peaceful world....ahh the dream...can't we all just get along.Sniff sNiff I think I'm gonna cry.

What is reality?....Reality is stravation and death and war....wake up and smell the dream Scand.

Oh I hear the chants alright, the difference is that unlike so many others I take the time to ask the question why and then explore it to find out. And, again, unlike others here I know the answer is not in the Koran, and that if that is as far as you're willing to look for the answer then you'll ignorant and prejudiced you will be, in fact, you will be little different from the fanatics on the other side since this is one of the fundamental tenets of fanaticism (and it is not a "Muslim" thing; it is a xenophobic, ignorant, and intolerant thing that doesn't depend on religion but can use religion, nationalism, or just about any other ideology or 'bond' as a means to an end).

You hear the word "Muslim" and you automatically associate it with the Jihadists on 9/11 or the woman in Burqa in Iran; I hear the word "Muslim" and I think of the Muslims who I work with who dress, act, and speak the same as you and me and who are not chanting "death to America" or "death to Israel"; rather, they are living the same lives as you and I with the same goals and the same dreams. In Iran, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, etc I imagine most of them have the same goals and dreams too, but none of the opportunities and some, or maybe many of them, are also taught, just as you have so obviously been taught, to fear and loathe "the enemy".

Sure some of them are chanting "death to Israel" and death to "America", and meanwhile Israel has recently killed several thousand Lebanese civilians in its "war on terror" while the US likely has the blood of 100,000+ Iraqis on its hands as well... and you wonder why? Yet of course you get a free pass because for them it is "terrorism" and they are "Muslim", while we are "Christian" or "Jewish" and can call it "collateral damage"... such nice neat categories for the same kind of ****.

And yeah 9/11 came before Iraq, and they've been chanting those slogans long before March/03, but our various bloody "interventions" in the region also goes way back to long before 9/11 as well. Recall Bin Laden used to be one of our guys and we armed, trained, and created the very mujahadeen that now goes by the name Al Qaeda... things are not as cut and dry as you'd like to believe they are, and the world isn't a place where there are only two kinds of people who are either "good" and "evil" or "Muslim" and "everyone else"; though its exactly that kind of thinking that underscores extremism of all forms no matter what its ideology, nationality, or rationalization. But keep thinking as you do, I know I'm not going to persuade you to think any differently as you have your nice neat little categories and they make things vert simple for you... just keep in mind that some of simply see people as people and we don't all lump people into neat little categories based solely on their religion, nationality, race, or political party.

[Edit] Have to leave for work soon, so I'll get to you later AL