SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

Steeltrap · 07-31-06, 11:18 PM

'Groundbreaking' for me was, is and always will be semi-realistic AI.

The reason I don't get too excited about a Pac campaign is:

1. the Pac is a HUGE area.....better get transit/time compression right.

2. the Japanese had very poor ASW compared with the battle of the Atlantic. Just look at the relative losses and how effective the blockade was. MANY books by actual commanders make it clear that, with all gear functioning (radar, sound etc), the ASW forces were not a huge concern. Sure, getting DC's was never something they liked or got used to especially, but so many times I've read that they dived to a crappy 90-100m, got below a thermal layer (which are far more prevalent in the Pac than Atlantic) and then secured from GC and motored off.

Now, how to accommodate those realities and make the game a challenge?

I DON'T want:
- psychic DDs
- merchants armed to the teeth which never seem to miss when they see me, and almost always DO see me.
- aircraft which appear in the middle of the Pac when they had nothing like the range to get there.
- aircraft which find me when the weather is poor/foggy.
- DDs which don't react when I attack things.
- DDs which don't act as a team along the lines of actual ASW doctrine as employed in the war (something the Allies got much better at vs the Japanese).
- DDs which 'hear' me 30 seconds after dropping DCs. DC explosions could render sound detection methods (passive and active) impotent for up to 5 minutes depending on various things.
- convoys which sail with ships within 50m of each other (I believe normal separation was 200m).
- convoys which don't alter course, but equally don't alter course all the time. Most 'zig-zag' patterns involved staying on a course for 15mins at a time or thereabouts I believe. Many instances merchants didn't zig at all as they weren't trained in such station-keeping exercises, and the various performances of the various merchants made this very difficult anyway.
- ASW forces which don't react on a strategic level (good point whoever made it). You can read plenty of instances of how subs moved operations after 1 or 2 sinkings so as to throw off any potential countermeasures such as ASW patrols or re-routing of shipping.

Equally:
- I don't want to have my scope stuck in the air forever while getting readings on targets. Actual doctrines were for scope exposure of less than 5 seconds on approach.
- proper plotting options on the chart.
- realistic torpedo damage. Most merchants were lucky to survive a successful detonation by 1 hit. After torpex was introduced 1 hit was usually enough for anything lacking effective compartmentalisation (which most merchants at that date did not have).

The graphic stuff is of secondary importance. Get realistic AI and that WILL be groundbreaking enough!!!

07-31-06, 11:18 PM	#28
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	'Groundbreaking' for me was, is and always will be semi-realistic AI. The reason I don't get too excited about a Pac campaign is: 1. the Pac is a HUGE area.....better get transit/time compression right. 2. the Japanese had very poor ASW compared with the battle of the Atlantic. Just look at the relative losses and how effective the blockade was. MANY books by actual commanders make it clear that, with all gear functioning (radar, sound etc), the ASW forces were not a huge concern. Sure, getting DC's was never something they liked or got used to especially, but so many times I've read that they dived to a crappy 90-100m, got below a thermal layer (which are far more prevalent in the Pac than Atlantic) and then secured from GC and motored off. Now, how to accommodate those realities and make the game a challenge? I DON'T want: - psychic DDs - merchants armed to the teeth which never seem to miss when they see me, and almost always DO see me. - aircraft which appear in the middle of the Pac when they had nothing like the range to get there. - aircraft which find me when the weather is poor/foggy. - DDs which don't react when I attack things. - DDs which don't act as a team along the lines of actual ASW doctrine as employed in the war (something the Allies got much better at vs the Japanese). - DDs which 'hear' me 30 seconds after dropping DCs. DC explosions could render sound detection methods (passive and active) impotent for up to 5 minutes depending on various things. - convoys which sail with ships within 50m of each other (I believe normal separation was 200m). - convoys which don't alter course, but equally don't alter course all the time. Most 'zig-zag' patterns involved staying on a course for 15mins at a time or thereabouts I believe. Many instances merchants didn't zig at all as they weren't trained in such station-keeping exercises, and the various performances of the various merchants made this very difficult anyway. - ASW forces which don't react on a strategic level (good point whoever made it). You can read plenty of instances of how subs moved operations after 1 or 2 sinkings so as to throw off any potential countermeasures such as ASW patrols or re-routing of shipping. Equally: - I don't want to have my scope stuck in the air forever while getting readings on targets. Actual doctrines were for scope exposure of less than 5 seconds on approach. - proper plotting options on the chart. - realistic torpedo damage. Most merchants were lucky to survive a successful detonation by 1 hit. After torpex was introduced 1 hit was usually enough for anything lacking effective compartmentalisation (which most merchants at that date did not have). The graphic stuff is of secondary importance. Get realistic AI and that WILL be groundbreaking enough!!!