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Skybird · 07-26-23, 08:19 AM

I have a soft spot for Chan koans...

Helped me more than many other things.

I should add ot my opening post that I recognize that there are things in clinical psychology that are useful and helpful, absolutely (even some from the Behaviorism school...). But they are that from a perspective of pragmatism, mostly not due to a basis of causal evidences for their validity. That starts with child development psychology, leads of C.G. Jung and may end at Freud. But its always possible and tempting to exaggerate and ending up in for example life-long psychoanalysis. That cannot be it!

Some people might be surprised that I - me! - are used to use Tarot and I Ging. But I do not use them much anymore, not even rarely. And obviously I do not have divination on mind, but it is a change of the code by which I am used to think about the object of my concern. Usually we think like we speak: the language dictates the possibilities as well as the limits of our thinking. Thats why I am convinced that for example a Chinese only fluent in Mandarin and a European onyl speaking Western languages indeed think differently, and cannot avoid to do so. Mathematics add a new code to describe things, and very objectively so, it is not word-dependent, is a universal code. I am comfortable and experienced to use Tarot and I Ging in a comparable function. Its like having a tour guide leading you to a new outlook point you did not know and from where the familiar land around you looks different. I have worked with tarot in counselling as well, also laid the cards for people before that occasionally. While I offer an explanation with the above, I must admit that I sometimes had experiences with it that were so stunning and causally connected to details about the other that the other sometimes was really scared, shocked. But this element again sometimes can be the kick that pushes people out of a deadlocked situation: like a koan serves the purpose to kick you out of your normal linear thinking, "to kill the ego".

But all this is stuff that is not covered from institutionally recognized and practiced psychology. You need to offer such stuff privately.

Im a a born sceptic, and pragmatic. But i also try to stay open where I realise I do not know enough. This is a good combination for these sort of things, it helps to prevent drifting off into pure shallow esotericism. A sober mindset is of the essence. And what helps, helps. It does not matter so much why that is so. If it helps, then it helps.

07-26-23, 08:19 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,717 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I have a soft spot for Chan koans... Helped me more than many other things. I should add ot my opening post that I recognize that there are things in clinical psychology that are useful and helpful, absolutely (even some from the Behaviorism school...). But they are that from a perspective of pragmatism, mostly not due to a basis of causal evidences for their validity. That starts with child development psychology, leads of C.G. Jung and may end at Freud. But its always possible and tempting to exaggerate and ending up in for example life-long psychoanalysis. That cannot be it! Some people might be surprised that I - me! - are used to use Tarot and I Ging. But I do not use them much anymore, not even rarely. And obviously I do not have divination on mind, but it is a change of the code by which I am used to think about the object of my concern. Usually we think like we speak: the language dictates the possibilities as well as the limits of our thinking. Thats why I am convinced that for example a Chinese only fluent in Mandarin and a European onyl speaking Western languages indeed think differently, and cannot avoid to do so. Mathematics add a new code to describe things, and very objectively so, it is not word-dependent, is a universal code. I am comfortable and experienced to use Tarot and I Ging in a comparable function. Its like having a tour guide leading you to a new outlook point you did not know and from where the familiar land around you looks different. I have worked with tarot in counselling as well, also laid the cards for people before that occasionally. While I offer an explanation with the above, I must admit that I sometimes had experiences with it that were so stunning and causally connected to details about the other that the other sometimes was really scared, shocked. But this element again sometimes can be the kick that pushes people out of a deadlocked situation: like a koan serves the purpose to kick you out of your normal linear thinking, "to kill the ego". But all this is stuff that is not covered from institutionally recognized and practiced psychology. You need to offer such stuff privately. Im a a born sceptic, and pragmatic. But i also try to stay open where I realise I do not know enough. This is a good combination for these sort of things, it helps to prevent drifting off into pure shallow esotericism. A sober mindset is of the essence. And what helps, helps. It does not matter so much why that is so. If it helps, then it helps. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 07-26-23 at 08:42 AM.