SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - Here we go again-Ukraine once again

Skybird · 08-20-22, 08:25 AM

NATO treaty, article 5, original text:

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

That formulation leaves plenty of flexibility for member states qwhetehr they agree with a situaiton of an attack on one member, and if so, in what way they react. It is left to ever ymamber sttae to fight, to send military aid, or to react in any other way - or not to react at all.

Its always implied that article 5, if triggered, means an automatic military committment of all member states for other member states. This impression is wanted - but it is wrong. The critical legal formulations are two-fold: 1. "shall be considered" - that is not the same as "must/will be considered", its juristic and treaty langauge haisplitting but leaves the wanted escape hatch open; and 2. "action as it deems necessary", which in the context refers not to the alliance as a whole or to its institutional control board to decide, but refers to each any every member state to individually assess what it deems necessary.

Note that the UN is also given a word in all this. Without its recognition of a justified case for troiggering artiocle 5, it cannot be activated.

You maybe ignore all this, thinking its all irrelevant hairsplitting. But this is a legal text, and you can bet your life on that not a single sentence and word was chosen by random, or carelessly.

These are not just my personal conclusions, but I just repeat what experts on the matter on various occasions have said or written.

08-20-22, 08:25 AM	#5751
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,731 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	NATO treaty, article 5, original text: The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. That formulation leaves plenty of flexibility for member states qwhetehr they agree with a situaiton of an attack on one member, and if so, in what way they react. It is left to ever ymamber sttae to fight, to send military aid, or to react in any other way - or not to react at all. Its always implied that article 5, if triggered, means an automatic military committment of all member states for other member states. This impression is wanted - but it is wrong. The critical legal formulations are two-fold: 1. "shall be considered" - that is not the same as "must/will be considered", its juristic and treaty langauge haisplitting but leaves the wanted escape hatch open; and 2. "action as it deems necessary", which in the context refers not to the alliance as a whole or to its institutional control board to decide, but refers to each any every member state to individually assess what it deems necessary. Note that the UN is also given a word in all this. Without its recognition of a justified case for troiggering artiocle 5, it cannot be activated. You maybe ignore all this, thinking its all irrelevant hairsplitting. But this is a legal text, and you can bet your life on that not a single sentence and word was chosen by random, or carelessly. These are not just my personal conclusions, but I just repeat what experts on the matter on various occasions have said or written. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-20-22 at 08:35 AM.