Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird
Putin clearly stated that in his twisted view the Ukraine is part of Russian identity and that he denies its right to exist as a separate state entity. He clearly and explicitly denied that the Ukrainians have a right to exist as a separate people, separte from the Russians. He ruled that out, completely. I speculated myself in the past he wants to split it, but no more I do that. I now think he wants it all - and if he cannot get it he wants to wipe it out in retaliation for not getting it.
We thouight about the West's role in triggering the events of today. I thought about that a lot in past days. But I now think:
it did not m,matter what we have done, or have not done, or culd have done difefrently in the past. He probbaly always was competely disconnected forkm all we thogutn and did and said, but always would heva einevtoably come to the point wher eh now is: to see NAOTR as an aggressor, and wnating to reivive the Warsaw Pact state of things, and if we would have been more appeasing or mroe aggressive, he nevertheless always would have gotten to the point where he now is. I now think we were completely without influence on the final outcome, could only have delayed or accelerated events a bit - not more. The outcome would always have been the same.
Scandianvian countries, namely Finland, report the traffic from Russia has dramatically incresed, and many Russians are coming. They do not come for temporary stays and travelling - they come to stay forever, they flee from Russia as long as they still could. I exopect, aftwer susaia alreadsy has stareted ti crack down on cpaitla fleeing the coujtnry and comaony investments being kept in Russia, that they will crack down on the fleeing people and will drop a new iron curtain to stop Russians fleeing for Russia. Many of those fleeing are middole cklassd peope with academical and specialised professions, since these are the ones who can financially still afford it. This sort of brain drain Russia cannot afford. They will drop the iron curtain.
And media. Nice. Say "Ukraine" and "war" in one sentence, and you now go to prison for 15 years. "Say "Ukraine" and "invasion" in one sentence, and now you get jailed for 15 years. You said "Ukraine" and "attack"? Well, enjoy a relaxing prison stay for 15 years. They now really make you think in the right way. The only way that is still allowed - theirs.
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Regardless of your views on Trump, do you think this would've happened if he president or while he was in office? It's interesting Putin basically invaded under Bush, Obama and now Biden.
Just seems to me the West is willing to prolong the suffering of Ukraine as a pawn with some weapons and some sanction in hopes it will degrade Russia to a level easier to deal with, tho it's pretty clear Ukraine will be lost. It's why I wonder if Ukraine should at least split itself first and move more of it's politics and army west, closer supply line, safer power grid and much closer to Putin facing NATO. If the battles continue in the cities the citizens are gonna be a mass casualty, no power, food, water. I worry so many experts say Putin won't stop in Ukraine, so do we sit back the next nation and let him take it because he threatens the use of nukes.
Anyways, the West is getting ready to come to terms with it's selling out to two communist nations for cheap goods, but I guess global corporatist control that and they buy and sell our politicians.