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Skybird · 08-21-21, 08:00 AM

Ha, I just wanted to post on in how far the circumstances of the retreat are putting America's leadership in NATO in doubt. I see serious damage done there. Beyond repair.

To leave, I still think was and is the right thing to do. It is overdue, since many, many years. One could have stayed another 30 years, and nothign would have changed, I am certain. But the planning for how to do it, obviously leaves plenty to be desired.

And I mind everybody, that Trump signed a pullout agreement for even earlier this year, and without any conditions accepted by the Taleban. Biden already has stretched timetables beyond their Trump-set limits. The usual bipartisan polarization thing that many Americnas have as their new hobby nowadays, does not bite here.

I could absolutely imagine that future historians will write about this desaster in some decades: "The chaotic and reality-disconnected way in which the pullout from Afghanistan was unilaterally triggered by one NATO member alone, was the beginning of the end of the alliance."

The big question, the elephant in the room, now is: what will Europe do to reduce its dependency from US forces that are increasingly unlikely to stand by the claimed purposes that once were the reason why they got send to Europe in the first. Lets face it, since many years the US sends one message at all four directions, loud and strongly: the US is an untrustworthy and unreliably "ally". And it likes to arrange politically strategic defeats for itself. And of Biden it is known that he prefers only soft power to support "allies", but wants military means limited to defend own American interests and people exclusively. "America first". And that is even legitimate, we non-Americans have no claim that America has to serve our interests. So again the question: with America increasingly falling out as world policeman and guardian of our security - what are we Europeans doing about it?

I don'T expect to become impressed any time soon.

Helmut Schmidt got it right on Afghanistan, he said something like this: the only conqueror who got Afghanistan right, was Alexander the Great. He entered it from one side, and then left it immediately again on the other side, on the Kyber Pass.

All others failed.

08-21-21, 08:00 AM	#386
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,728 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ha, I just wanted to post on in how far the circumstances of the retreat are putting America's leadership in NATO in doubt. I see serious damage done there. Beyond repair. To leave, I still think was and is the right thing to do. It is overdue, since many, many years. One could have stayed another 30 years, and nothign would have changed, I am certain. But the planning for how to do it, obviously leaves plenty to be desired. And I mind everybody, that Trump signed a pullout agreement for even earlier this year, and without any conditions accepted by the Taleban. Biden already has stretched timetables beyond their Trump-set limits. The usual bipartisan polarization thing that many Americnas have as their new hobby nowadays, does not bite here. I could absolutely imagine that future historians will write about this desaster in some decades: "The chaotic and reality-disconnected way in which the pullout from Afghanistan was unilaterally triggered by one NATO member alone, was the beginning of the end of the alliance." The big question, the elephant in the room, now is: what will Europe do to reduce its dependency from US forces that are increasingly unlikely to stand by the claimed purposes that once were the reason why they got send to Europe in the first. Lets face it, since many years the US sends one message at all four directions, loud and strongly: the US is an untrustworthy and unreliably "ally". And it likes to arrange politically strategic defeats for itself. And of Biden it is known that he prefers only soft power to support "allies", but wants military means limited to defend own American interests and people exclusively. "America first". And that is even legitimate, we non-Americans have no claim that America has to serve our interests. So again the question: with America increasingly falling out as world policeman and guardian of our security - what are we Europeans doing about it? I don'T expect to become impressed any time soon. Helmut Schmidt got it right on Afghanistan, he said something like this: the only conqueror who got Afghanistan right, was Alexander the Great. He entered it from one side, and then left it immediately again on the other side, on the Kyber Pass. All others failed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-21-21 at 08:13 AM.