SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - Will the U.S. Navy Build Stealthy AIP Submarines?

sdmuleman · 12-28-20, 10:51 PM

Keep in mind also that a non nuc sub still has to meet all the Subsafe wickets for design, construction, maintenance, etc. That means that it's still going to be very clostly and hard to build, especially needing a new design & testing and certification, and likely standing up a new submarine shipyard to build them. Thus, the cost savings is likely far less than folks think. Yes, manning is lower, and you don't need costly nuclear trained Sailors, but that's again less of a savings than you'd think.

Also, shear physical size is required for certain missions - a small diameter hull isn't big enough to put a big VLS tube on, or embark a drydock shelter, or do certain other missions. Yes, you can shoot torpedos or horizontally launched missiles, but there's many more things out there to do, some of which require a larger boat. Likewise, physical size impact the size of sensors that can be carried. Further, electrical power is also significant - nuc boat not only gives you more or less unlimited propulsion, but also electrical power for fire control systems, sonars, etc etc.

Anyone significant thing to consider is manning, specifically officers. Currently, nuclear training is tightly integrated into the submarine officer (1120) community. You must be nuclear trained and proficient in nuc matters to stand many watches, get promoted, etc. Because of this, non nuc duty would either have to be in addition to regular nuc boat tours (i.e. in place of a shore tour) or would be an off ramp job that more or less takes that officer out of the running for future nuc boat jobs. Given that a diesel boat mission is also inherently less likely to be important, interesting, sexy, etc. it seems very likely that the diesel boats would becomes the second class citizens, with all the baggage and negatively associated. Now, of course other navies do make a mixed navy work, and USN has obviously done so in the past, but there significant differences.

Bottom line, cost/benefit calculus doesn't make sense, and any non nuc construction anytime in the immediate future is highly unlikely IMHO.

12-28-20, 10:51 PM	#9
sdmuleman Nub Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 2 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Keep in mind also that a non nuc sub still has to meet all the Subsafe wickets for design, construction, maintenance, etc. That means that it's still going to be very clostly and hard to build, especially needing a new design & testing and certification, and likely standing up a new submarine shipyard to build them. Thus, the cost savings is likely far less than folks think. Yes, manning is lower, and you don't need costly nuclear trained Sailors, but that's again less of a savings than you'd think. Also, shear physical size is required for certain missions - a small diameter hull isn't big enough to put a big VLS tube on, or embark a drydock shelter, or do certain other missions. Yes, you can shoot torpedos or horizontally launched missiles, but there's many more things out there to do, some of which require a larger boat. Likewise, physical size impact the size of sensors that can be carried. Further, electrical power is also significant - nuc boat not only gives you more or less unlimited propulsion, but also electrical power for fire control systems, sonars, etc etc. Anyone significant thing to consider is manning, specifically officers. Currently, nuclear training is tightly integrated into the submarine officer (1120) community. You must be nuclear trained and proficient in nuc matters to stand many watches, get promoted, etc. Because of this, non nuc duty would either have to be in addition to regular nuc boat tours (i.e. in place of a shore tour) or would be an off ramp job that more or less takes that officer out of the running for future nuc boat jobs. Given that a diesel boat mission is also inherently less likely to be important, interesting, sexy, etc. it seems very likely that the diesel boats would becomes the second class citizens, with all the baggage and negatively associated. Now, of course other navies do make a mixed navy work, and USN has obviously done so in the past, but there significant differences. Bottom line, cost/benefit calculus doesn't make sense, and any non nuc construction anytime in the immediate future is highly unlikely IMHO.