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Skybird · 08-24-20, 03:01 PM

Yor are not telling even just half of the story, Bilge Rat.

1. I do not see why the EU should voluntarily stay vulnerbale to Ukrainean blackmailing and stealing of gas transits, which in the past both happened repeatedly, and at our costs And Russia'S costs. The Ukraine is a state run by cartels, oligarchs and a deeply corrupt, criminal political elite.

2. I do not see why such a growingly ultranationalistic Poland, whose government is spitting fire and brimstone at Naziuland all the time, should have a finger on the trigger to blackmail the EU or Germany either. Hek, how much I wish they owudl finally, finally overcome their victim neurosis. There military today is at least as strong and capable as ours, probably even much more so. I think militarily we need them more to protect us, than they need us to protect them.

3. The US narration, told with absolutely hostile aggressiveness by now and accompanied by massive threats and open blackmailing attempts (that the US already carries out but ironcially accuses Russia of wanting to do if one lets them) is this: that Russia would become too dominant and would use the opportunity to blackmail Europe. But the real motive of the US, is much more simple: money.
The US frackign industry has invested insane amounts of money into fracking, with all its fantastic ecological consequences, and warnings by assumed world customers that one does not want to buy it: too expensive, too dirty. As a result, the US gas won this way is intoxicated more with additional chemicals than traditionally won gas. It then must consume huge ammounts of additional energy to cool it down to liquify it so that it actually can be transported by ships. This makes the gas inferior in quality, more difficult to process and to clean, and almost uncompetitive with global market prices. It has only disadvantages: economically, ecologically, financially. The costs to pay are 30-40% above market standards. And months ago, the prices were in free fall, the market almost collapsing. But - the US insists to get compensated for its fracking madness by other national economies. It does not want to bear the costs of its folly. It should become other nations' costs: ours. The governors and politcal lead personnel behind pushing for this, all are Trump people and Trump friends. And Trump dispises Germany anyway.

4. The US politicians of senate, congress and government now have united to shatter the German determination to complete this operation. They seem to think they are the owners of the world and all other people owe them obedience. All companies participating in the project, are threatened with facing existence-destroying sanctions, even legal persecution with international warrants. The harbour of Sassnitz has been told that the Usa and banks would do eveything they could to destroy it economically and financially, they called it a Wipe-out. Unimportant regional province politicians, their families, smallest sub-contractors, village mayors and their families have been threatened with juriostic persecution if they help in the project. The threats in parts reach down to the ordinary Peter and Paul on the street. Its without example. Not even Iranian people of the lowest political level have been individually targetted this itensely.

5. Germany and Holland have build several terminals that could unload US gas tankers. But not even half of these capacities are beigngused by US tankers because: nobody orders American liquid gas, it is not in demand, because it is too bad in quality, too expensive in price and too expensive in follow-up costs for cleaning it. Nevertheless, the US accepts not the market telling the truth, but now holds a weapon at Germany'S and the EU's sleeve to nevertheless pay for it. Mafia methods.

6. On the height of the cold war, there were nevertheless economic treaties between the USSR and European nations in place. And even at the coldest of times the Sovjets honoured their treaty obligations, always. But the US now already carries out that kind of criminal, international-treaty-breaking behavior that it uses as a strawman argument when claiming that the Russians would behave as badly as the Americans already right now do. That is absurd, and infame.

7. Its also the demand that Europe should follow Americans commands. COMMANDS. We are not sovereign free nations, we are obedient vasalls, that means. We have to obey. F. U. America!

My former sympathy for it has cooled down tremendously in the last three years,a dfjnhtta has happened with a very, very lot of people over here. One does not need to be left and Marxist anymore to be against Amercia these days: America itself has become reason enough to reject it (its on the same roguie level like Russia or China now, just that their leaders do not make themsleves look like clowns as much as the Amereicna poltlical elite does). And if somebody like me says that, you can take that as an illiustration of how seriously America has pissed the world and Europe in the past three years. - Minding people here: I talk of the polltical entitiy an poltlicla actor. I do not talk about personal relations of the ordinary Peter Schmidt and John Smith.

8. Nord Stream 2 is not unopposed inside the eU either, that is correct. Poland likes to have a finger at the trigger if the pipe lines runs through its territory, so do the Baltic states. Polasn thinks ti wins in weight, since it is the by far b iuggest net reciever in the eU,m getting more oeny form Brussel than the next three recioever toiegther. Such a dependency can ruin your self-esteem. Others fear the German demon raising its head again But - after the recent impertinences from the US reaching us, something that I did not expect would happen - took place: with the exception of Poland and Baltic state, all other EU nations rallied behind Germany and its unloved project and sent a united "dimanche" - that is a sharp protest note I understand - to Washington, strictly rejecting the impertinent imperialistic Americna demands and pointing out the violation of international laws that lay at the basis of the American demands. - Hell, I love it when I sound like a red-skinned commie using commie language. Never used that before. Now america makes me so. Becasue it is imperialism, plain and simple.

This is not about the Ukraine, Bilge Rat, it is not about Poland, and it is not about protecting the eU energy sovereignty. After the Ukraine, the EU forced an energy diversification policy, whciu is poretyt much realised already, and Germany even before that had over 30 nations as sources for its energy imports. Russia is the biggest importer, but in no way is it as bnig as Trump the Liar repeatedly has claime din the past,s aiyng we get over half of our gas from Russia, that is complete nonsense. but even if the Russian share would stop from one day to the next, it would not existentially threaten neither us, nor the EU, it would cause a need to chnage and to move, and thats it. That is a blatant American lie to hide its own financial egoism and its own economic interests.

America wants to sell its own gas in Europe, a product of inferior quality and incompetitive pricing. That is all. Thats why both political camps in the US are uniting for this frontal attack on the sovereignty of "befriended"

other nations. Its about money, that is all noble motive there is. With the reasons formally given by the Americans, they just put European nations and Germany on the same level like North Korea and Iran, btw. We noticed it, from Berlin over Paris to Brussels, we will not forget it. We love you so much.

I can assure you, everbyody over here has taken note of this latest of recent American impertinences against especially Germany. There are more than just one or two reasons why we are so totally hostile to Trump.

On EU level, America has achieved right the opposite of what it had hoped. The EU has been forced to realise that one cannot afford to trust America anymore, and to not form a front against it. Certain political guidelines on relations with he US have been changed by the EU, internally, certain parts of the diplomkatcik oaradigm have been deleted and replaced with newer, tougher ones. It has left us no other chance, else we could say goodby to our place on the world stage and wear collars and hand the line over to our American masters. Nord Stream 2 will be completed, and if that means economic war with the US, then so be it. Germany being the biggest paymaster in the eU, sometimes has advantages when needing to bring others into line. The American threats are threatening us at our existential level, this has been understood throughout the EU now. Heck, if even the CDU/CSU positions itself uncompromisingly against the US demands, and established parties and the AfD and the EU comission and 25 of 27 EU states are united against the US demands, then this really shows something. A strange unificaiton of very different wills - but only rarely such unity is to be seen in the EU.

America wants very well that Europe is dependent from Energy imports, but not from a diversity of sources and from Russia, but fro america. What you scare us that the Russians would threatend to do - blackmailing, bullying -, you actually carry out already right now yourself. Best thing would be America keeps its damn liquid gas, we dont want it, we do not need it, its a massive ecological exploit, a waste of - our - money since its hopelessly overpriced, its incompetitive in every regard, and if America cant sell it anymore to anyone, its gas market would collapse and billions and billions of fracking investemnts would be in need to get written off. Good! America wanted economic war, so it shall suffer. Maybe we cannot prevent to catch fire - but if we burn, America will burn with us.

Not many over here hope that a president Biden would change the principle conflict over this, thats why nobody seriously waits for it. The American aggression over Nord Stream 2 is non-negotiable, unforgivable, and in the end nothing else but the opening of an undeclared economical war. And no, the Russians did not start it. It was started by America that does not want to pay the bill for its fracking madness by itself. Idealism and defending Europe against the Russians- that has nothing to do with it.

There are many reasons, mostly created by Trump, but not exclusively so, (much already started under Clinton and was proceeded under Obama), why relations between Europe and Germany, and America have the temperature of a deep cooling fridge now. But Nord Stream 2 is probably one of the most relevant ones, if not THE most relevant, at least from a German point of view. The damage done by America in the past three years, cannot be healed again ever. In the end, it closes economical ties more between most of Europe, and Russia and China, and raises ressentiments against America. Right the opposite of what the US wanted to acchieve with its aggression. You see, the charming thing is, Russia needs Europe in return, too, and to a bigger degree than the US needs Europe (hidden wink to the US state department).

08-24-20, 03:01 PM	#1065
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,619 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Yor are not telling even just half of the story, Bilge Rat. 1. I do not see why the EU should voluntarily stay vulnerbale to Ukrainean blackmailing and stealing of gas transits, which in the past both happened repeatedly, and at our costs And Russia'S costs. The Ukraine is a state run by cartels, oligarchs and a deeply corrupt, criminal political elite. 2. I do not see why such a growingly ultranationalistic Poland, whose government is spitting fire and brimstone at Naziuland all the time, should have a finger on the trigger to blackmail the EU or Germany either. Hek, how much I wish they owudl finally, finally overcome their victim neurosis. There military today is at least as strong and capable as ours, probably even much more so. I think militarily we need them more to protect us, than they need us to protect them. 3. The US narration, told with absolutely hostile aggressiveness by now and accompanied by massive threats and open blackmailing attempts (that the US already carries out but ironcially accuses Russia of wanting to do if one lets them) is this: that Russia would become too dominant and would use the opportunity to blackmail Europe. But the real motive of the US, is much more simple: money. The US frackign industry has invested insane amounts of money into fracking, with all its fantastic ecological consequences, and warnings by assumed world customers that one does not want to buy it: too expensive, too dirty. As a result, the US gas won this way is intoxicated more with additional chemicals than traditionally won gas. It then must consume huge ammounts of additional energy to cool it down to liquify it so that it actually can be transported by ships. This makes the gas inferior in quality, more difficult to process and to clean, and almost uncompetitive with global market prices. It has only disadvantages: economically, ecologically, financially. The costs to pay are 30-40% above market standards. And months ago, the prices were in free fall, the market almost collapsing. But - the US insists to get compensated for its fracking madness by other national economies. It does not want to bear the costs of its folly. It should become other nations' costs: ours. The governors and politcal lead personnel behind pushing for this, all are Trump people and Trump friends. And Trump dispises Germany anyway. 4. The US politicians of senate, congress and government now have united to shatter the German determination to complete this operation. They seem to think they are the owners of the world and all other people owe them obedience. All companies participating in the project, are threatened with facing existence-destroying sanctions, even legal persecution with international warrants. The harbour of Sassnitz has been told that the Usa and banks would do eveything they could to destroy it economically and financially, they called it a Wipe-out. Unimportant regional province politicians, their families, smallest sub-contractors, village mayors and their families have been threatened with juriostic persecution if they help in the project. The threats in parts reach down to the ordinary Peter and Paul on the street. Its without example. Not even Iranian people of the lowest political level have been individually targetted this itensely. 5. Germany and Holland have build several terminals that could unload US gas tankers. But not even half of these capacities are beigngused by US tankers because: nobody orders American liquid gas, it is not in demand, because it is too bad in quality, too expensive in price and too expensive in follow-up costs for cleaning it. Nevertheless, the US accepts not the market telling the truth, but now holds a weapon at Germany'S and the EU's sleeve to nevertheless pay for it. Mafia methods. 6. On the height of the cold war, there were nevertheless economic treaties between the USSR and European nations in place. And even at the coldest of times the Sovjets honoured their treaty obligations, always. But the US now already carries out that kind of criminal, international-treaty-breaking behavior that it uses as a strawman argument when claiming that the Russians would behave as badly as the Americans already right now do. That is absurd, and infame. 7. Its also the demand that Europe should follow Americans commands. COMMANDS. We are not sovereign free nations, we are obedient vasalls, that means. We have to obey. F. U. America! My former sympathy for it has cooled down tremendously in the last three years,a dfjnhtta has happened with a very, very lot of people over here. One does not need to be left and Marxist anymore to be against Amercia these days: America itself has become reason enough to reject it (its on the same roguie level like Russia or China now, just that their leaders do not make themsleves look like clowns as much as the Amereicna poltlical elite does). And if somebody like me says that, you can take that as an illiustration of how seriously America has pissed the world and Europe in the past three years. - Minding people here: I talk of the polltical entitiy an poltlicla actor. I do not talk about personal relations of the ordinary Peter Schmidt and John Smith. 8. Nord Stream 2 is not unopposed inside the eU either, that is correct. Poland likes to have a finger at the trigger if the pipe lines runs through its territory, so do the Baltic states. Polasn thinks ti wins in weight, since it is the by far b iuggest net reciever in the eU,m getting more oeny form Brussel than the next three recioever toiegther. Such a dependency can ruin your self-esteem. Others fear the German demon raising its head again But - after the recent impertinences from the US reaching us, something that I did not expect would happen - took place: with the exception of Poland and Baltic state, all other EU nations rallied behind Germany and its unloved project and sent a united "dimanche" - that is a sharp protest note I understand - to Washington, strictly rejecting the impertinent imperialistic Americna demands and pointing out the violation of international laws that lay at the basis of the American demands. - Hell, I love it when I sound like a red-skinned commie using commie language. Never used that before. Now america makes me so. Becasue it is imperialism, plain and simple. This is not about the Ukraine, Bilge Rat, it is not about Poland, and it is not about protecting the eU energy sovereignty. After the Ukraine, the EU forced an energy diversification policy, whciu is poretyt much realised already, and Germany even before that had over 30 nations as sources for its energy imports. Russia is the biggest importer, but in no way is it as bnig as Trump the Liar repeatedly has claime din the past,s aiyng we get over half of our gas from Russia, that is complete nonsense. but even if the Russian share would stop from one day to the next, it would not existentially threaten neither us, nor the EU, it would cause a need to chnage and to move, and thats it. That is a blatant American lie to hide its own financial egoism and its own economic interests. America wants to sell its own gas in Europe, a product of inferior quality and incompetitive pricing. That is all. Thats why both political camps in the US are uniting for this frontal attack on the sovereignty of "befriended" other nations. Its about money, that is all noble motive there is. With the reasons formally given by the Americans, they just put European nations and Germany on the same level like North Korea and Iran, btw. We noticed it, from Berlin over Paris to Brussels, we will not forget it. We love you so much. I can assure you, everbyody over here has taken note of this latest of recent American impertinences against especially Germany. There are more than just one or two reasons why we are so totally hostile to Trump. On EU level, America has achieved right the opposite of what it had hoped. The EU has been *forced* to realise that one cannot afford to trust America anymore, and to not form a front against it. Certain political guidelines on relations with he US have been changed by the EU, internally, certain parts of the diplomkatcik oaradigm have been deleted and replaced with newer, tougher ones. It has left us no other chance, else we could say goodby to our place on the world stage and wear collars and hand the line over to our American masters. Nord Stream 2 will be completed, and if that means economic war with the US, then so be it. Germany being the biggest paymaster in the eU, sometimes has advantages when needing to bring others into line. The American threats are threatening us at our existential level, this has been understood throughout the EU now. Heck, if even the CDU/CSU positions itself uncompromisingly against the US demands, and established parties and the AfD and the EU comission and 25 of 27 EU states are united against the US demands, then this really shows something. A strange unificaiton of very different wills - but only rarely such unity is to be seen in the EU. America wants very well that Europe is dependent from Energy imports, but not from a diversity of sources and from Russia, but fro america. What you scare us that the Russians would threatend to do - blackmailing, bullying -, you actually carry out already right now yourself. Best thing would be America keeps its damn liquid gas, we dont want it, we do not need it, its a massive ecological exploit, a waste of - our - money since its hopelessly overpriced, its incompetitive in every regard, and if America cant sell it anymore to anyone, its gas market would collapse and billions and billions of fracking investemnts would be in need to get written off. Good! America wanted economic war, so it shall suffer. Maybe we cannot prevent to catch fire - but if we burn, America will burn with us. Not many over here hope that a president Biden would change the principle conflict over this, thats why nobody seriously waits for it. The American aggression over Nord Stream 2 is non-negotiable, unforgivable, and in the end nothing else but the opening of an undeclared economical war. And no, the Russians did not start it. It was started by America that does not want to pay the bill for its fracking madness by itself. Idealism and defending Europe against the Russians- that has nothing to do with it. There are many reasons, mostly created by Trump, but not exclusively so, (much already started under Clinton and was proceeded under Obama), why relations between Europe and Germany, and America have the temperature of a deep cooling fridge now. But Nord Stream 2 is probably one of the most relevant ones, if not THE most relevant, at least from a German point of view. The damage done by America in the past three years, cannot be healed again ever. In the end, it closes economical ties more between most of Europe, and Russia and China, and raises ressentiments against America. Right the opposite of what the US wanted to acchieve with its aggression. You see, the charming thing is, Russia needs Europe in return, too, and to a bigger degree than the US needs Europe (hidden wink to the US state department). __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-24-20 at 03:48 PM.