[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by scandium

Alright, this is certainly every bit as relevant as any other factor (more relevant in the sense that you would have 100% correlation between Islamic terrorists and these passages, although this is a little circular).

There is nothing circular here. Islam teaches that the Quran is the absolute word of an omnipitent G-d and Mohamed is his prophet. If someone believes in that and is dedicated to Islam's writing and teachings, they will carry out what they rationally understand to be their duties and obligations.

But to look at the correlation from the other direction: how many of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims are linked (directly or through financial ties etc) to acts of Islamic terrorism?

I've already responded on another thread with excerpts from essays by Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald:

Let us assume that the estimate, given by one , that 10-15% of Muslims are terrorists or potential terrorists. One does not know how this figure is arrived at. Ali Sina and other defectors from Islam, whom I trust, consider it to have the percentages backwards, for they suggest that 85-90% of Muslims might become potential terrorists, or supporters of similar acts, or would be ready to harm non-Muslims in other ways, in the conduct of Jihad. Who knows, really -- and how could we ever be certain? But even the gleeful behavior of masses of Muslims all over the world, after 9/11, or the numbers of people naming their sons "Osama," or the kinds of things routinely said and applauded at meetings of Muslim nations, or the kinds of demands made on Infidel societies by Muslims now living in their midst, or the behavior of Muslim pressure groups to limit the power of Infidels to undertake reasonable security measures (including, precisely, profiling to target not a race, or an ethnic group, but the adherents or potential adherents of the ideology of Islam), and the enormous efforts to conduct Da'wa by every conceivable and sly means, including the rewriting of textbooks to transform the history of Infidel lands, and to target the most vulnerable members of society(prisoners, immigrants, schoolchildren) for the conduct of Da'wa -- all of this should give any Infidel who has studied the theory and practice of Islam, considerable pause.

But suppose that the lowest estimate -- 10% of all Muslims -- were in fact somehow true? No, let us make that figure 5% -- only 5% are potential terrorists. Then what? If one out of 20 Muslims allowed into the Western world holds to these ideas, where are we then? Or what if one of the other 19 picks them up from that one? We have no way of insuring that every single Muslim will forever and ever be immune to such appeals.

That being the case, it is a matter of obvious prudence for Western governments to study carefully the question of Muslims migration to the Western world. Even if the figure of “only” 10% is accurate, we would be mad to continue to allow in and give citizenship to such a pool of people without a moment’s hesitation or examination or consideration. Infidel governments should not allow their policies to be dictated by fear of offending, or by believing their own absurdities -- no one should continue to mouth the kind of absurdities about the religion of "peace" and "tolerance" that we have had to endure in the past.

Prudence demands that risks be minimized. And time is running out.

From Pseudo-symmetries and moral equivalences



It's a "war on terror," and those "terrorists" are a "handful of extremists." No, they're slightly more than a "handful of extremists." Now they're ten percent, and now potentially 50 percent, or if we are to believe the ex-Muslims, the keen apostates, more like 80% or more of those who take Qur'an and Hadith seriously support acts of terror. And then, of course, we are not entitled, are we, to even discuss Da'wa and the demographic conquest of Western Europe -- even if such matters are discussed openly, with great anticipation and pleasure, at Muslim websites. That would not be possible.

Who's crazy? Who's schizophrenic? Is it Moussaoui? Is it Al-Sharbi? Or is it those Infidels who are still unwilling to look at the teachings of Islam -- the Infidels who are still too paralyzed with fear of what they might find out and who thus remain incapable of even beginning to study the texts of Islam, and to discover what caused the 1350-year history of Islamic conquest and subjugation and then codified oppression of Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists, and indeed everyone under their control who was not a Muslim.

Who is crazy? Is it Al-Sharbi, or those who are discussing his case who will tell us that he's just "one more nut case, like Moussaoui"?

From Who's crazy?

Back to your post:

Again that's where causation comes into play in that why does only a minority of those who commit acts of terror have this view in their religion while so many more of them do not commit acts of terror? Because there are other factors that are at play that are beyond these passages - I have no idea what they are, only that these passages themselves are not sufficient.

Even the Quran itself recognized that many/most/lotsof its adherents who not achieve what Islam views as such a high level of dedication and self sacrifice to Allah:

" Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to (the pious service of) those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and strive with might and main in the cause of Allah jihad fi sabil Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah: and Allah guides not those who do wrong."
Quran 9:19

There are many ways to be a good Muslim, even a great one. But nothing beats a Mujahid. And Mujahids are Islam's cream of the crop, not its bottom of the barrel.

Go and study Islam, for heaven's (or Canada's) sake!

I suppose this goes back to another point I made in the other thread: these passages are ideas;

Hogwash, gibberish and nonsense! To Muslims, these are the commandments of Allah. You need not understand them. They are to be carried out.

why do some (a minority) feel compelled to act on them while so many more do not?

It is against human instinct to bring children into this world and then strap and explosive belt around them and kiss them goodbye. Try it.

Essentially, it is a question of dedication and devotion and doing what you understand is the right thing to do in spite of your greatest emotions. To be a Shahid is to be a witness for Allah. Indeed, shahid means witness.