[scandium]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Was Hitler a victim or an executor of his ideas?I bet the latter. But according to your absurd logic, fascism is of same value than pacifism, tyranny is of same value than democracy, Jesus' altruism is of same value as Muhammad's murderous selfishnes, becasue all ideas can be abused, and thus it is not worth to see the qualitative differences between them.

Ideas in themselves are powerless. In fact they are much preferable to the alternative, which is ignorance.

But ideas are the reasons why people may want or may not want to kill. Ideas do make people act, or not act.

No ideas only inform the choices people make, and they are at least as likely to make the "wrong" choice out of ignorance as they are out of having too many ideas. And in any case, it is ultimately the action and not the idea that has consequences. Where you put the blame on Islam for the world's ills I'd be much more likely to put the blame on ignorance. Ignorance by virtue of people who are born and kept into a state of ignorance by the theocrats who enforce this ignorance through tyranny.

By the way, you should read 1984 Skybird. As you are equating action with the same kind of "thought crime" that Orwell warned of in the fictional Big Brother world the book is set in.

How could you dare to deny any value in any cultural achievement, philosophy, idea - for the simple reason that it could be abused, if one is trying that? How could you spit on the efforts of generations during centuries that tried to improve life and living since the medieval, who often failed, that is right, nevertheless there can be no doubt that we live a far better life today than our ancestors a thousand years back?

Am I the one spitting on it? The enlightentment, and all of those things you speak of there, were driven by novel ideas (at the time) that lifted society out of the primitive conditions that oppression and enforced ignorance had forced them into because people had known no other way, no alternatives.

Nevertheless the overwheliming majority of these still have no problem to see themselves as Christians, and to refer to Jesus as a valuable example to base your acting upon.

That is their right in enlightened societies such as ours that permit freedom of religion. Freedom to choose Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Wicca, or whatever else they would choose so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others. If there is anyone in these threads who supports that, I would say it is me as I'm not the one who would begin to take this right away starting with Islam; for though it may begin there, it surely would not stop there.

I do not know if I should shout at or laugh about you, sorry. It is ridiculous, all this hyper-intellectual reasoning of yours. But such ignorrance surely is the reason why politics and communties are desintegrating, and thus it raises my anger. The opinion you represent I call the EU-desease, and it does nothing constructive, it only destroys, it adds no conture or form, but deletes them; it kills identity and replaces it with the dicate of "solidarity". Growth without limits and rules is no structural order. It is cancer. Cancer kills.

I'm not so familiar with the EU, as I don't live in Europe. What is the EU disease that I represent?