Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish
@Ju88: Of course you are right. There are problems and the EU needs a lot of reforming, if it can even be helped anymore. I am just getting sick and tired of people echoing the whole far-right Bannon and Farage claptrap published in media like Breitbart, Fox, The Sun, The Express, the german Bild and those other usual suspects, without individually having any own idea or even the pretense to have informed themselves before they spread their opinonated hate, when the whole internals of the EU can be openly viewed, including all problems and challenges, and successes.
But conspiracies and endless lamenting are so much more fun!
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Yes fair enough, but equally that can all easily be flipped in the other direction.
Owen Jones, the Guardian, Independent and Mirror, also espouse very bourgeois lefty clap trap and bad rhetoric. there is no such thing an an unbiased news source - being stuck in either bubble is not too healthy.
But people generally just go with confirmation bias - only reading from the places that tell them what they want to hear for a quick dopamine hit.
Because voluntarily challenging our own views is painful and hard.
Remember that all your top bank executives and politicians (the establishment) and prominently cosmopolitan middle class types were in favor of remaining.
Bear in mind these people are not exactly a bastion of truth, free from self interest either. But they more proficient in projecting the idea that its all because they care about others more than themselves.
lets be sensible about this shall we?
Those who want to remain:
Overall progressive middle class. left leaning and there for in favor of expanding government, more collectivism, co-operation and regulation,
They are concerned about the environment, public services & programs and the wealth divide between the wealthiest and poorest and cultural integration. keen on open borders.
A fringe of them are pro immigration for all the wrong reasons.
(Intersectional BS)
Above all else - they themselves are doing WELL in the current socio/economic conditions.
Those who want to leave
Overall conservative Working class, right leaning and in favor of smaller government. less regulation, concerned with national identity, security and heritage, keen to preserve their industry and culture and not have it dissolved in to something generic.
Have been let down / left behind in the rise of globalism.
keen on controlled immigration
A fringe of them are anti immigration for all the wrong reasons.
(Xenaphobic BS)
Above all else - they themselves are NOT doing so well in the current socio/economic conditions.
everything else I hear about about leavers and remainers can be written off as hysterical nonsense mostly. both leavers and remainers are largely ordinary people, not especially smart or stupid, and with no real ill intent if you actually talk to them properly, instead or riling them up with a stupid smear campaign and 'gotcha' moments.
Neither one is particularly right or wrong for wanting the things they want.
You go anywhere in the world and you will find people with the same kind of values.
But even then there is over lap- Conservative Right wing Remainers (ie.Cameron & Osbourne) and left Wing Brexiteers (ie Jezza & Galloway)
But the idea we should shout down and insult those we disagree with, and call them all 'nazis' or 'marxists' or whatever is plain stupid and hysterical. I'm not playing that game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish
Do you think life will be better in a Europe without the EU? Really?
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That is impossible to predict. But either way, it will be better for some and worse for others.
It not black and white, yes / no answer, is it?.
Think of who wants to destroy the EU, and why.
Yup i get it, but likewise we must equally:
Think of who wants to Preserve the EU, and why.
If there is one thing I've learned from all this political division, its not to trust people who start foaming at the mouth and ranting when talking about their respective political rivals.
There are some very deranged and unhinged people on the both sides of the spectrum, the insane are of no help to anyone.