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EddieLyons · 10-04-18, 08:07 AM

Hi, guys,

I've been something of a lurker on Subsim for a few years now. On and off I've played Silent Hunter 2 and Destroyer Command for many, many years. Loved both of them! But, recently I decided to "upgrade" to Silent Hunter 4 -- only about ten years late!

I installed vanilla 1.5 and playing it for a few weeks to familiarise myself with it, and to browse Subsim to see which supermod would best suit my approach to gameplay -- which is maximum "realism", at least as far as a PC game can allow. I settled on TMO, and have installed TMO 2.5.

I also like to get in some "peacetime" sailing, so I added Pre-Pearl Harbor for TMO.

I like to start at the beginning, and at the bottom (so to speak), so my career begins at Manila on an S-class Pig Boat. After being deployed first to waters off the west coast of the Philippines for a couple of days, I got orders to patrol the South China Sea on anti-shipping operations. This was still some days before 7 Dec (so the "anti-shipping" wording was a bit of a surprise). So, I plotted a course to the new patrol area, and decided that since it was within the specified radius of operations, I would do a recon of shipping in Taipei harbour. On my run in towards Taipei, I got word of the attack on PH, and the order to wage unrestricted warfare on Japanese shipping.

So, when I got in range of shipping in the harbour, after dark on 7 Dec 1941, I managed to get torpedo hits on two stationary ships, one of which sank. When that ship sank, I got the message "Neutral unit destroyed". I double checked the flag on that vessel to make sure (it was in shallow water at the docks, so the superstructure was still visible) and it definitely flew a Japanese flag.

So, my question is:

How does SH4 model the International Date Line, and how does that affect the date in use east and west of that line?

We all know that Hawaii is east of the IDL, so the Japanese attack on PH was on 7 Dec. However, west of the IDL, the date was the following day, so in Japan, the Philippines, Australia, etc, the date of the attack on PH was 8 Dec. So, sinking a Japanese ship west of the IDL on 7 Dec 1941 is technically one day before the war started, which would account for the "Neutral unit destroyed" message I received.

I know that in another thread I read several weeks ago somewhere on Subsim, there was a mention that Japanese warships tend to ignore American vessels on 7 Dec, and don't become hostile until 8 Dec. This would suggest that at least some parts of SH4 correctly model the local date for the start of hostilities west of the IDL, but the campaigns don't seem to model this in terms of the messages and orders received, which are one day too early if you are west of the IDL. (I had the same thing in the stock campaign when I played a few patrols to learn the ropes before I installed TMO.)

Is there any correction for this date discrepancy that would be compatible with TMO 2.5 and the Pre-PH campaign start?

10-04-18, 08:07 AM	#4544
EddieLyons Watch Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 28 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Question about neutrality Hi, guys, I've been something of a lurker on Subsim for a few years now. On and off I've played Silent Hunter 2 and Destroyer Command for many, many years. Loved both of them! But, recently I decided to "upgrade" to Silent Hunter 4 -- only about ten years late! I installed vanilla 1.5 and playing it for a few weeks to familiarise myself with it, and to browse Subsim to see which supermod would best suit my approach to gameplay -- which is maximum "realism", at least as far as a PC game can allow. I settled on TMO, and have installed TMO 2.5. I also like to get in some "peacetime" sailing, so I added Pre-Pearl Harbor for TMO. I like to start at the beginning, and at the bottom (so to speak), so my career begins at Manila on an S-class Pig Boat. After being deployed first to waters off the west coast of the Philippines for a couple of days, I got orders to patrol the South China Sea on anti-shipping operations. This was still some days before 7 Dec (so the "anti-shipping" wording was a bit of a surprise). So, I plotted a course to the new patrol area, and decided that since it was within the specified radius of operations, I would do a recon of shipping in Taipei harbour. On my run in towards Taipei, I got word of the attack on PH, and the order to wage unrestricted warfare on Japanese shipping. So, when I got in range of shipping in the harbour, after dark on 7 Dec 1941, I managed to get torpedo hits on two stationary ships, one of which sank. When that ship sank, I got the message "Neutral unit destroyed". I double checked the flag on that vessel to make sure (it was in shallow water at the docks, so the superstructure was still visible) and it definitely flew a Japanese flag. So, my question is: How does SH4 model the International Date Line, and how does that affect the date in use east and west of that line? We all know that Hawaii is east of the IDL, so the Japanese attack on PH was on 7 Dec. However, west of the IDL, the date was the following day, so in Japan, the Philippines, Australia, etc, the date of the attack on PH was 8 Dec. So, sinking a Japanese ship west of the IDL on 7 Dec 1941 is technically one day before the war started, which would account for the "Neutral unit destroyed" message I received. I know that in another thread I read several weeks ago somewhere on Subsim, there was a mention that Japanese warships tend to ignore American vessels on 7 Dec, and don't become hostile until 8 Dec. This would suggest that at least some parts of SH4 correctly model the local date for the start of hostilities west of the IDL, but the campaigns don't seem to model this in terms of the messages and orders received, which are one day too early if you are west of the IDL. (I had the same thing in the stock campaign when I played a few patrols to learn the ropes before I installed TMO.) Is there any correction for this date discrepancy that would be compatible with TMO 2.5 and the Pre-PH campaign start?