[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

I dislike being forced, without an alternative, to manual controls, because this game said to put you in the position and role of the captain - not a helmsman, diving officer and planesman.
To be able to drive manually, is super cool! The more, the merrier!
To be forced to do it, instead of doing it realistically by giving orders to your crew, is not.

You can certainly like or dislike this point. However, to say it is unfinished is unobjective. Further, I'll argue when the entire reality of subsimming is taken into consideration, forcing you to do it actually brings you closer to the captain's experience because it forces you to monitor your maneuver and choose reasonable maneuvers, both of which are realistic elements.

The enemy gave me his bearing instantly and committed suicide because all I had to do was to send a Mk48 down-bearing and hit time compression so I can get on with the campaign already.

And if he didn't, given the situation, you will simply have found him on passive sonar, and given your habit you will snapshot on that contact and then he will die, without ever having had a chance. You cannot equate "It didn't work" or even "As it turned out, it sped up the end for him" with "It was a bad tactic." In fact, it also shows that the game did not cheat by quietly hinting to the AI sub where you are, allowing him to make an informed decision as to whether to ping.

Ok, this is where it ends and where I will call for moderation to step in.

Wow, cool it there. I meant it that one about the Victor III as a light-hearted reference to your constantly saying the subs ping without provocation (and you know that time, that wouldn't be true, since you just killed his bud).

Originally Posted by PL_Harpoon

Perhaps this will make you understand our problem:
I want to change course from 0 to 90.
In Fast Attack (or DW) I give appropriate orders and fast forward until the task is complete.
In Cold Waters (vanilla) I put rudder at 30, fast forward until I reach 85 and press X to level it.
Nothing was gained gameplay wise, but something was lost. For that moment of turning instead of feeling like a captain I felt like a child with RC boat.

I believe your feeling about being a "child with RC boat" is genuine (though I don't share it, at least not as much), but let me try to point out some things you gained. In Cold Waters, you have to remember (be responsible for) you've given the maneuver so you can stop it - though you can run off and do other things quickly in mid-turn. In DW (since I never played Fast Attack), once you've given the order, you can forget all about having given it. This sense of responsibility is actually a immersion-increase.

Further, helm control was clearly an area they deliberately kept simple for the players (and possibly the AI - if the AI spun out of control in course as well as depth during evasive manuevers this game will indeed BE unfinished!) In depth control, in DW, you can do this.

You are at 600 feet and want to be at 60 feet faster than the ordinary command will bring you to it (you don't need to; you are just impatient). You can actually blow your MBT, then vent and tell your helm to set a depth of 60 feet, and he will clean up after you, thus you get away with doing such things. The ability to do that reminds one instantly that he is playing a game.

In CW, you don't get such cleanup assistance, so before you rashly order a 30-degree rise, maximum positive ballast ascent, you have to consider the reality that someone would have to clean up after you - because you get to do it. So you learn to not do it lightly and make more +5 or +10 movements, resembling a real submariner's choice - that's the gain.

Once we actually get automated steering (which seems a certainty now), if it is as good as the ones in my experience, then we'll be able to do that all over again. The autocrew will fix the abuses you made. Does that really increase that "feeling like a captain" thing.