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Originally Posted by Konovalov
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Originally Posted by Skybird
Obviously the protest and/or boycotts had been massive enough that huge corporations saw the need to invest substantial sums in dealing with the fallout.
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Evidence please of such "massive enough" protests/boycotts? I thought it would have been obvious enough to back up your assertion with evidence. |
Ask the marketing directors of the affected companies. If they had to withdraw designs for products, have to call back several hundred thousand units of a finished product, and have to change logos in product designs, messing up a complete marketing campaign, then all this costs money in the range of several million dollars. For example in case of the 800.000 Nike shoes, let's assume a price of 100 bucks per piece (there are sport shoes that cost twice as much), results in 80 million dollars loss - just for the shoes themselves. Transportation, marketing, new design costs even not calculated. Image loss, time delays even not considered. I'm sure they wasted all that money all for nothing, becasue they were bored. How could one assume there was pressure or protest…
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Originally Posted by Skybird
In Amsterdam (or Rotterdam) they are raising a huge mosque. For the construction works, a christian cross of a church on the other side of the site had to be removed, temporarily. The church is there, and was there. Some days ago there was a comment on radio, saying that first Muslim voices are to heared that demand that not only the huge crucifix should not be errected again in it's old position after the construction works are done, because it would be offensive to do so, no - some seem even to say that the chrurch should de dissappear now, too.
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Please provide evidence of where in the Holy Qu'ran that it explicitly supports such a silly argument of the cross should not be put back up and is offensive because a Masjid is right next door?
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Who cares if the Quran has to say anything about such a specific details?that is not the deciding thing. You are trying to distract attention, by limiting the focus to that of a microscope. And anyway, chances are you would find a comment on such a special detail not in the Quran, but the Hadith. The important thing is that the Quran teaches the overcoming of non-Islamic culture, in many text passages explicitly and beyond doubt demands the submission of non-Islamic people and cultures, and authorizes the use of violence in case of resistance to Islam, of apostasy. If Islam (or Quran) really is so tolerant:
1. why not only this demand by speakers of Muslim communities that the cross keeps away after construction,
2. but also no substantial, forceful attempt of the Muslim community to prevent those Muslims claiming that demand in the name of Islam from doing so??? Too busy with springtime’s homework?
Truth is: if these communities do not care to do something about this, then it is because they do not see a provocation taking place that needs them to defend “true Islam” against those who “abuse” it. It also means that they do not really care for the Christian community that hosts them. Whi9ch is only logically, since chriszians and Jews are dhimmis only, anyway.
3. If there are so many Muslims sharing your mindset, why do they care so little to make themselves heared and make sure their opinion is what determines and forms the shape of Islam? Why allow them a minority to speak for them? I see little ncouragement in the Quran to do so, that’S why it is that way.
I also must remind you of the ongoing systematical hindering, repressalias and pressurizing of foreign religions inside Muslim countries. I repeatedly wrote about this.
Show me/us, that the clear majority of Muslim communities is that caring for their Western hosts and are as reasonable as you try to give an impression you are. Then I am willing to rethink my position towards Islam, but wouldn’t consider it to be Islam as it is defined by Quran, Hadith, Muhammad. I judge it not on the basis of what it says, and claims to be, and wishes it would be, but what effects it causes in the reality I live in, and the history I can read books about. As long as this change in behaviour of communities does not happen, I stick to my opinion of it: that it is a selfish, hostile conqueror, being fixated to exclusively Islamic understandings of terms like value, morale, and belief, and with no concept of a tolerance that reaches beyond “Islamic rule and dominance”.