Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
If you don't know my position by now I don't know when you ever will...but ok, here we are again.
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You mostly wrote one liners without really saying much, I genuinely asked. But be assured, this time, your post did suffice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon
Yes, Germany screwed up, took in too many migrants, no doubt there. Yes, some of them are breaking the law, no doubt there, and yes it probably does have a fair bit to do with different social atmospheres.
Does this mean that Islam is ebil (TM) not really, no. It means that some people are arseholes, and they deserve to be arrested and put into prison and/or deported.
Let's not forget why so many people are coming to Europe, because we've royally screwed over the Middle East, it's like we've kicked the ants nests and now we're complaining because the ants are upset and swarming.
So my position is that the EU should be doing more to settle these people, temporarily or otherwise, in a more spread out fashion across the organisation, or just accept the inevitable and disband the EU and give up on trying to co-ordinate any kind of organisation in Europe in order to remain a global power. The likes of Poland and Hungary should not be able to just wash their hands of the problem, if they want to be a part of the EU and reap the economic benefits of it then they should also do their part to help the EU in this crisis, otherwise what is the point of having the damn thing. Same thing goes for the UK, by the way, before anyone starts whinging about that too.
Some people are dicks, some are not. If you decide to treat all Muslims as dicks then you're going to hit those who consider themselves as moderates, those people who you think are 'Not Muslims' in the cross-fire. It's like deciding that all Christians are evil because of the actions of the KKK and the WBC, or that all Hindus are evil because of the actions of the RSS.
In short, if someone who is a Muslim molests a woman, arrest him, charge him and either imprison or deport him. But don't deport him, his friend down the road and all the other Muslims in the street because one guy was an idiot.
When it comes to taking more migrants though, yes, Germany has to stop now, I've already said that, Germany has done its share, let the rest of Europe pick up the pieces. The Schiegen agreement is going to have to be dropped and borders re-established, and designated quotas per country established. In the meantime somewhere is going to have to be cleared and camps created to house these people, Russia should help with this as well, and so should Eastern Europe. Heck, old vessels that are still sea-worthy could be recommissioned and organised into temporary shelters.
Someone in the EU needs to step up and start giving orders, but, sadly, since most of the EU parliament is staffed with Euro-sceptics, no-one is going to listen to those orders. So nothing is going to happen, and this situation is just going to continue getting worse, people are going to continue to blame the migrants, the right wing is going to continue to rise in power, and the future is ****.
Basically.
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I wish to address the following.
"Yes, some of them are breaking the law, no doubt there, and yes it probably does have a fair bit to do with different social atmospheres."
Not some:
Many. That is the problem. Sure,
"some" and
"many" are both relative terms, but there are numbers to clear that up.
The problem is, you will have 5 sources with 6 different statistics.
Coincidentally, the left papers always claim that the statistics are all wrong - while the right papers claim... that the statistics are all wrong.
For example, Spiegel Online - your
"we all need to be friends!" paper claims that "Migrants commit more crimes!" is a lie - and statistics support that too, on first glance.
If you know how these statistics work however, you will quickly realize why this seems to be the case. In Germany, roughly 50% of the migrants do have German papers, so inside the statistics, they are counted as Germans - not Migrants... because that looks a tad nicer.
So yes, migrants commit more crimes.
"Does this mean that Islam is ebil (TM) not really, no. It means that some people are arseholes"
I never said Islam is evil because migrants grope Women.I said Islam is evil because the Quran commands to act in a way that is simply not acceptable in our western civilization
- which is a fact, is it not?
"Let's not forget why so many people are coming to Europe, because we've royally screwed over the Middle East"
Oh please. What exactly did I do to the middle east?
Is north North-Africa the middle east by the way?
Is Morocco at war?
Algeria?
Tunisia?
And for the ME,
Egypt?
Or did I turn Syria in into ruins?
Even if,
I said let's help those who need it, more then once, however, we can not sacrifice everything we have because of the usual
"evil European guilt-trip".
It is the same as the guilt-trip my country went through after WW2.
I had nothing to do with any of that, leave me alone.
Neither do I endorse or support the foreign politics of my country and I surely didn't want the US to start this mess in the middle east way back in the 80s, so I do not accept that Europe and therefore Germany, as we know it, have to bend-over for an ideology that makes no secret out of what it thinks about the western ways and what it would prefer instead.
I wouldn't say a single word, if the newspapers would not report about "southlandish-looking men" who commit [insertrandomcrime] on a daily basis. Daily, Oberon - that isn't
"some people are bumholes", that is a real problem, caused by people with a
very certain cultural background. Meanwhile, the Christian refugees we have do not cause problems, on the contrary, they are constant targets of muslim aggression, as someone pointed out before I think.
Surely, another coincidence, let's not blame Islam.
"It's like deciding that all Christians are evil because of the actions of the KKK and the WBC, or that all Hindus are evil because of the actions of the RSS."
No, it is nothing like that.
First of all, the bible and the Christian culture that has developed over time - contrary to Islam - doesn't command you to kill [insertothereligion/non-believers] "wherever you find them", or to beat your wife or conquer the world - contrary to Islam.
Also, how much of a real problem is KKK
TODAY?
What matters is what happens now and
tomorrow. I don't give a damn about some KKK freaks from half a century ago, they do not matter anymore, they aren't a problem - Islam is because every day(!) people murder and slaughter in the name of this ideology, fueled by hatred, consumed out of their most holy book. They only do what the Quran says - unlike those who do not, yet claim to be "muslim".
The fact that you speak of "moderate muslims" actually says it all.
There is no such thing, realistically speaking, like "moderate Buddhists" or "moderate Jews",
and I wonder why? 
"In short, if someone who is a Muslim molests a woman, arrest him, charge him and either imprison or deport him. But don't deport him, his friend down the road and all the other Muslims in the street because one guy was an idiot."
I didn't ask to do so.
As an atheist, I'd gladly see religion vanish one way or the other, especially Islam, but I didn't ask for this - so why bring it up?
I said Islam is evil, and I provided examples and facts to support this point of view that I do not expect you to share or agree on - just to accept without acting as if I'm some lunatic right wing sociopath when in reality, I could hardly be more left - and this isn't a joke, I am a complete
"live and let live" person. Go marry your lawnmower, go be a hobo, a punk who refues to work because reasons, be a gay transgender martian, go to some church 3 times a day, I do not care -
be happy, life is precious!
But my 'tolerance' ends however, when I am
expected to tolerate someone or something that goes against everything our western values stand for and is nothing but a dangerous ideology, determined to conquer everything and everyone. Be it nazism or Islam, same **** to me, evil is evil and a "moderate muslim" who doesn't do anything his book says is no valid counter argument against my opinion that Islam itself is evil.
Closing, I agree with pretty much the rest of your post, I just wanted to address the above.
Both our viewpoints are clear by now, I guess.
I do not wish to pick a fight with you, and the near future will tell if I was just paranoid, or right.