[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I would say that banning large mosques is going a bit too far, but the rest is fair enough, except for where you say no more mass immigration of Muslims. Now, what about if these are Muslims who are fleeing from the radical Muslims that you're looking to stop?

As I've said earlier I'm not against taking refugees in. I just want them to go back once Syria is at peace again.

Going back to our 1937 Germany comparison of earlier, Jewish Germans fleeing Germany, do we take them in? Even though they're from a nation run by the Nazi ideology, but they are in fact victims of that ideology rather than followers of it.
How do you split the two?

In case of the Jews it's pretty easy. They by definition can't be part of the Nazi ranks so there should be very little danger to import that ideology with them. The problem is we're not talking immigration of Jews but immigration of millions of "average" Germans who might or might not be in with the Nazis and don't reject Nazism per se but just the ultra radical version. "Moderate" Nazism is ok to them.

Now, no-one has banned PEGIDA even though it's heading down the NASDAP path, heck even the head of the Central Council of Jews in Germany can see the problems inherant in it, "He stated that the fear of Islamist terror was being exploited to disparage an entire religion. For him this was unacceptable."

Funny just two months ago the central counsel of the Jews in Germany stated their fear of a massive rise of antisemitism because of the many Muslim immigrants....
http://www.zentralratdjuden.de/de/ar...der-juden.html

Have I ever said that? No, the alternative is rational reaction,
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Let the refugees come, police the borders certainly, restrict them if necessary, house the refugees in temporary camps and work through them carefully and with the help of all nations of the EU, before rehoming them equally across the EU.

How do you work through them carefully? A lot of them have no papers and we know now that Daesh has most likely an official Syrian passport printer.

Rehoming them in the EU is a dream that won't come true as most member states don't give a sheet and leave it all to Germany and Sweden. So there goes the rational approach right there.

Deport them where though, and how do you stop them coming back?

If they have a passport send them back to their home country. If they have "lost" their papers make the person chose a country. If he refuses to pick one just send them to the Sahara. That will make them remember where they came from. Yes, that's quite nasty (and perhaps not that realistic) but it's the only way to not be played for fools by people who throw away their papers to prevent deportation.
Take fingerprints from all immigrants and filter those out that have already been deported once.

I'll admit now that I misattributed the camp project to Trump, I've seen since that he wants them all banned from entering the US rather than put in camps, but he did want all Muslims to carry ID cards if I recall correctly.
That's a step down a dangerous road in my book, and that's how these things start, when we accept that such steps are necessary, when the extreme becomes the normal.

Again, Trump is an idiot. (well, so am I, but that's a different story....)

And the anti-Islam ideology isn't dangerous either?

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's because I'm from a country that lived under Nazi oppression that I'm so vehemently against totalitarian ideologies. But what would have happened if no one had stopped the Nazis? What if people had decided to just let them do their thing and not to take an anti Nazi position? I think the world wouldn't look the same today and it would be ugly looking.

I find that reacting to extremism with extremism is hardly a wise choice of action.

Define extremism please. I'm not talking about killing. I'm not talking about mass imprisonment just for being Muslim. I'm not saying to tear down all mosques. All I say is that Islam should not become stronger here and prevent it from doing so by the means I've pointed out above.

I guess if we want to keep with the World War II analogies then yes, every Muslim is a threat because they follow the evil ideology of Islam and should be treated as such, being isolated from society and interned in camps until it can be determined that they're not going to explode. After all, that's what America did in World War II, it's what we did in World War II to any Germans or people of German descent, including the German Jews who had fled to the UK seeking refuge from Nazi Germany.
I thought we were better than that, but I guess I was wrong. It's just a pity that we have to watch history repeat itself again, but what else would I expect from the human race, I suppose?

So what do you propose? Let massive numbers of Muslims into your country and hope for the best? Hope that they will magically integrate much better than the other three million did 50 years earlier? What if they keep their tradition of having many children? What will you tell your great grandchildren when they have become a minority in their own country? "Well, we saw it coming but it was political incorrect to address or even do something about it, so please wear your headscarf at all times"?
Yes that is still far in the future but as it is it's just a question of when, not if.