[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

then... given all these so called facts... just show me one

that's all... one captured WMD... just one...

how many thousands of people have reportedly seen BigFoot...
how many documented UFO sightings have there been...
the Loch Ness 'monster'...

show me one of these as well... show me just one BigFoot... a single Nessy... one lil green alien...

just one!!!!

can you see the sort of reasoning (and i use that word very generously here) you subscribe to...
and that you would try to seduce others into following you down the yellow brick road on looney tunality... well, it's almost comical... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
and it would be if it weren't linked to the biased agenda that you, by your very own words here, that you exhibit and try to pass off as fact...

on the contrary... you have no facts...

there is only one undeniable fact... no WMDs have been located and or taken into custody... period.


as far as the fog of war thing... educate yourself

The Fog of War
Submitted by MJS on Sun, 2006-03-19 19:06.


I got to thinking about the three year anniversary of the United States’ invasion of Iraq, and how I believe that war is a bestial game rich people play upon each other, all the while using poor people to do their fighting. Maybe that’s a result of reading George Orwell, who wrote the following:

All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.

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Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.

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In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics.’ All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.

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Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

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With all that in mind I bring forth a song to acknowledge the third anniversary of our murderous state’s intrusion into Iraq:

The Fog of War*
(an mp3 version of this song [sung acapella, natch] can be heard here.)

three years ago, in the dark of night
we invaded Iraq and proceeded to fight
there were few in DC who opposed the war
with blood on their hands they cried for more

the earth said sons, why do you choose to kill?
nothing ever grows from the blood you spill
the soldiers who fought could not hear the voice
they had all been trained that they had no choice

(chorus)
they walk in the sand in the fog of war
shoot into the sky, blow off heaven’s door
Nobody stops them, nobody can
Nobody left to stand

oh, the grave’s are dug and the earth is cold
the men in suits clap their hands and crush their souls
but late at night, when screams rise from hell
gather up the children for this tale you should tell

(repeat chorus)

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The mp3 recording was sung to the tune “The Long Black Veil” by Danny Dill with Marijohn Wilkin. The version I have heard the most (and was referencing in my rendition) was performed by Mick Jagger (Bono sang backup) and The Chieftains on their album The Long Black Veil.

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“In case you haven’t noticed, we…dehumanize our own soldiers, not because of their religion or race, but because of their low social class. Send ’em anywhere. Make ’em do anything. Piece of cake.”

Kurt Vonnegut

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» MJS's blog | front page | | | | | 100 reads

Try facts
Submitted by Nudnik (not verified) on Mon, 2006-03-20 00:50.
“In case you haven’t noticed, we…dehumanize our own soldiers, not because of their religion or race, but because of their low social class. Send ’em anywhere. Make ’em do anything. Piece of cake.”

What utter nonsense. The composition of the US Army does not differ substantially from the composittion of the US. It is utterly false that soldiers are of “low social class”. Here is one study that completely disproves your assertion.

In 2003, however, only 14.6 percent of military recruits came from the poorest quintile, whereas the wealth­iest quintile provided 22.0 percent. Enlistments from wealthier areas surged, resulting in a 3.4 per­centage point upturn. The middle-class quintiles (the third and fourth wealthiest areas) consistently provided disproportionately high numbers of sol­diers in both year groups. (See Chart 1.)

» reply
Orwell quotes
Submitted by Wintermute (not verified) on Mon, 2006-03-20 02:27.
Where’d you get ‘em?

» reply
Where he got 'em
Submitted by dr sardonicus on Mon, 2006-03-20 03:16.
Heritage. ‘Nuff said.

And the mourners are all singin’
As they drag you by your feet
But the hangman isn’t hangin’
And they put you on the street

» reply
My bad
Submitted by dr sardonicus on Mon, 2006-03-20 03:42.
Heritage is where Nudnik gets his garbage. As for Orwell, best to leave that to MJS…

And the mourners are all singin’
As they drag you by your feet
But the hangman isn’t hangin’
And they put you on the street

» reply
Logical fallacy?
Submitted by Nudnik (not verified) on Mon, 2006-03-20 08:39.
Sardonicus, no need to dispute the facts….just attack the source. Great way of arguing.

» reply
Who said I was arguing?
Submitted by dr sardonicus on Mon, 2006-03-20 10:06.
But I tend to smell a rat whenever I see one of those studies that makes generalizations based upon “quintiles”. You know the story - Bill Gates walks into the bar, and the average net worth of all the patrons goes up to over a billion. Now, take your highest quintile of Americans - you’re catching some people making less than $100,000 per year. I don’t know the exact numbers, but I’m pretty sure that the number of Americans over $100,000 per year isn’t yet 20%. And a $100,000 annual income, although not chump change, still makes you no more than upper middle class, a wannabe - to be really wealthy in America these days, if you really want to matter, you better be in seven figures, baby…

So now I see these charts. We got this one, says “Differences between Military and Civilian Income Distribution”. We see the biggest upward bulge, where there’s the biggest number of recruits relative to income level, in the $30-50K/year group. That’s working class these days, man, what with the price of gas and all - you can’t touch middle class for less than $50K/year today. And guess what - that’s where the bars dip back under the baseline. Who knew?

I’ve only got time for one more, ‘cos my dog wants to go for a walk. This one says, “Change in Enlistments after 9/11, by Household Income”. Looks good for you at first - it says enlistments rose most in the $40-80K/year group; I’ll concede that as middle class. But as we go over $80K/year, into that fifth quintile - damn, there go those bars dipping under the baseline again. And one more problem - 9/11 was over four years ago, man. Looking at this graph, there’s no way of separating out those who enlisted in the first flush of patriotic fervor as opposed to those coming along after the Iraq invasion, into the current quagmire. Just not a lot of meat on dem bones…

Oh yeah, Heritage. Damn straight I will disparage, badmouth, slander, and cut Heritage, Eagle Forum, and anything else that dried-up old biddy Phyllis Schlafly ever had a hand in. Every woman in America, and every man with any sense, should piss on her for her role in defeating the Equal Rights Amendment. Yeah, I take it personally - friends of mine were once beaten up by the goons guarding her nice little gated enclave on the bluffs in Alton, Illinois. I curse Phyllis Schlafly and all of her descendants, even unto their seventh generation.
And the mourners are all singin’
As they drag you by your feet
But the hangman isn’t hangin’
And they put you on the street

» reply
Orwell linkage
Submitted by MJS on Mon, 2006-03-20 13:38.
Wintermute:

Just google “george orwell quotes” and you will find loads of quotes—but here are a couple of direct links:

Brainyquote.

Here’s one I just found:

“Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.”

from Thinkexist.com

Also, George-orwell.org

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» reply
nuddikins sweet, come to suck the bones of little children?
Submitted by kelley b on Mon, 2006-03-20 16:42.
Read this, nuddikins.

We’ll do the weeping.

Being old enough to remember the VietNam war, I tell you even the best and highest are brought low when they return smelling of the sweat of blood and burnt flesh and hearing the screams from afar in the night.

But you wouldn’t know, nuddikins, ‘cause all your heros are too important to fight.

No Hell below us
Above us, only sky

» reply
Interesting this is the thread nudnik surfaced on
Submitted by lambert on Mon, 2006-03-20 17:00.
The Republicans must be afraid they’re losing the Army….

As indeed they deserve to.

Ceterum censeo, Bush delenda est!

http://www.correntewire.com/the_fog_of_war

and all you can counter with is some childish reference to Jackie Collins...

you make it all too easy for me to show your ignorance on this topic... with every word you post, you sink yourself deeper into you self created quagmire...

so just keep posting away...

--Mike