SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post - Film-Documentary on Battle of Crete

U-214 · 03-24-06, 01:08 PM

@STEED

I agree.We could have won.In fact Freyberg was quite optimistic about the outcome and not without good reasons.We were outnumbering them on the island.But as always good equipment and above all strategic errors judge the outcome.It is well known that the main German success was in the west sector (Maleme-Chania),while the central and eastern ones would have collapsed completely.Unfortunately,the local commander's action to hesitate to defend the Maleme airport more vigorously was the key to the german victory.Once the Germans secured the airport,reinforcements were secured,cancelling the effort of the Royal navy that had successfully denied sea reinforcements paying also high cost because of the Luftwaffe raids...

@Gunnersmate:

Yes,Hitler never again used his elite paratroopers in large scale actions.6000 Germans were killed (i think 4500 of them are in the Chanea cemetary,about 1000 were burried in Heraklion) and it wasn't just the casualties but it was a really brutal fight,because once you are on an island you know that you can't retreat easily.
As far the Greek side is concerned it is certainly remembered as the most savage fight in WWII because of the anger of the Greek reservist division that was stationed on the island (because it was the only time that Greek troops had a good chance of defence ,given that in mainland Greece the Greek army was almost all engaged in Albania with the Italians and when the Germans invaded from Bulgaria and Jugoslavia they met little resistance due to the lack of manpower and because the best equipment had been sent to the Albanian front) and because traditionally the Cretans are very familiar with knives and guns and have a particular code of honour ,similar to the Sicilian vendettas or the Corsicans.The scenes in the trailer with civillians hunting down Germans with knives or agricultural tools really happened and there is no similar incident recorded during the greek resistance elsewhere.

This is from a German site:

The II. Battalion - which was intended as the regiments reserve - parachuted as planned into the area east of the Spilia and encountered no opposition. One reinforcement platoon had been dropped further west near Kastelli, and came down amongst two Battalions of Greek troops and large bands of armed civilians - the parachutists were almost annihilated; the odds were too great for the thirteen survivors who had to surrender. Their lives were saved by the intervention of a New Zealand officer in charge of the Kastelli sector. The bodies of the missing were found later-badly mutilated.
http://www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com/kreta.htm

And this account is from Newzelander site:

Cretans too became involved in the battle. On the first day there was determined resistance to the Germans around Alikianou-women and children were also involved, armed mainly with shotguns. Some Germans were killed with axes and spades.

A bit later on, it was a few days after the parachutists arrived, we used to see these old Cretans—most of the young fellas had gone, you see—these old fellas come along and pass through... 'Which way are the Germans?' And they'd be out for a day's shooting. Blunderbusses...Carbines, I suppose they could have been. And they'd go back home again at night...'

A counter-attack using bayonets by the Greeks under Captain Forrester's command made the Germans withdraw, and a thin line of defence was then organised across the gap, including soldiers from 6 Greek Regiment rallied in the 19 Battalion area by Peter Wildey.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/day1.htm

It was a most inspiring sight. Forrester was at the head of a crowd of disorderly Greeks, including women; one Greek had a shot gun with a serrated-edge bread knife tied on like a bayonet, others had ancient weapons—all sorts. Without hesitation this uncouth group, with Forrester right out in front, went over the top of a parapet and headlong at the crest of the hill. The [Germans] fled.'

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/day3.htm

And this is an account from the film's forum:
"All of my family was involved in the invasion and i have vast knowledge of the atmosphere ,attitude and events.Even my grandmother who died earlier this year at the age of 104 years was at the parachute landing near Hania collecting the guns of the Germans as my grandfather was stabbing them with his pitch fork.To explain the passion of the Cretans at one stage my grandfather slapped my grandmother because she got tired and hesitated in ordering her son my uncle to stab the Germans in the throat after my grandfather pitch-forked them.He was 14 years of age.To many this might sound barbaric but we are taught to be humble,honest,loving people whoever if the time arises we never forget or lose our passion of our defensive nature.Also i have met Australians that my families were hiding and how they were contacting Cairo through the radio which was hidden in our farm.The killing of the Greek colaborators,who betrayed their people even to this day their children have a mark on their name.Thank You..RegardsEmmanuel Maragoudakis "

It is one of the most unknown yet very bloody and savage battles of WWII where all parts fought very valiantly,both Allies and Germans and is not by accident the place that had the most atrocities from the Germans after the Allied retreat,because exactly of the high casualties and the persistence of the resistance.The Cretan resistance under British leadership is the only case of successful kidnapping of the German general (the commander of the island) during WWII.He was shipped to Egypt.

From the German site:

The cost to the Germans of Operation Merkur was high. Of the 22,000 men committed for the operation approximately 6,000 were casualties. Key figures killed during the battle: Generalleutnant Süssmann, Major Braun, Major Scherber, and Oberleutnant van Plessen. The mountain troops lost 20 officers and 305 other ranks, killed in action; the missing-most of them drowned when the Royal Navy sunk the boats transporting them, numbered 18 officers and 488 other ranks. Of the nearly 500 transport aircraft involved, 271 had been lost.

The British and Dominion casualties were 1.742 killed, 1,737 wounded and 11,835 taken prisoner.
For the Royal Navy the battle cost the Mediterranean fleet: three cruisers and six destroyers sunk; one aircraft carrier and three battleships, and six cruisers and nine destroyers-damaged. Over 2,000 men killed and almost 500 wounded.

03-24-06, 01:08 PM	#5
U-214 Gunner Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	@STEED I agree.We could have won.In fact Freyberg was quite optimistic about the outcome and not without good reasons.We were outnumbering them on the island.But as always good equipment and above all strategic errors judge the outcome.It is well known that the main German success was in the west sector (Maleme-Chania),while the central and eastern ones would have collapsed completely.Unfortunately,the local commander's action to hesitate to defend the Maleme airport more vigorously was the key to the german victory.Once the Germans secured the airport,reinforcements were secured,cancelling the effort of the Royal navy that had successfully denied sea reinforcements paying also high cost because of the Luftwaffe raids... @Gunnersmate: Yes,Hitler never again used his elite paratroopers in large scale actions.6000 Germans were killed (i think 4500 of them are in the Chanea cemetary,about 1000 were burried in Heraklion) and it wasn't just the casualties but it was a really brutal fight,because once you are on an island you know that you can't retreat easily. As far the Greek side is concerned it is certainly remembered as the most savage fight in WWII because of the anger of the Greek reservist division that was stationed on the island (because it was the only time that Greek troops had a good chance of defence ,given that in mainland Greece the Greek army was almost all engaged in Albania with the Italians and when the Germans invaded from Bulgaria and Jugoslavia they met little resistance due to the lack of manpower and because the best equipment had been sent to the Albanian front) and because traditionally the Cretans are very familiar with knives and guns and have a particular code of honour ,similar to the Sicilian vendettas or the Corsicans.The scenes in the trailer with civillians hunting down Germans with knives or agricultural tools really happened and there is no similar incident recorded during the greek resistance elsewhere. This is from a German site: The II. Battalion - which was intended as the regiments reserve - parachuted as planned into the area east of the Spilia and encountered no opposition. One reinforcement platoon had been dropped further west near Kastelli, and came down amongst two Battalions of Greek troops and large bands of armed civilians - the parachutists were almost annihilated; the odds were too great for the thirteen survivors who had to surrender. Their lives were saved by the intervention of a New Zealand officer in charge of the Kastelli sector. The bodies of the missing were found later-badly mutilated. http://www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com/kreta.htm And this account is from Newzelander site: Cretans too became involved in the battle. On the first day there was determined resistance to the Germans around Alikianou-women and children were also involved, armed mainly with shotguns. Some Germans were killed with axes and spades. A bit later on, it was a few days after the parachutists arrived, we used to see these old Cretans—most of the young fellas had gone, you see—these old fellas come along and pass through... 'Which way are the Germans?' And they'd be out for a day's shooting. Blunderbusses...Carbines, I suppose they could have been. And they'd go back home again at night...' A counter-attack using bayonets by the Greeks under Captain Forrester's command made the Germans withdraw, and a thin line of defence was then organised across the gap, including soldiers from 6 Greek Regiment rallied in the 19 Battalion area by Peter Wildey. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/day1.htm It was a most inspiring sight. Forrester was at the head of a crowd of disorderly Greeks, including women; one Greek had a shot gun with a serrated-edge bread knife tied on like a bayonet, others had ancient weapons—all sorts. Without hesitation this uncouth group, with Forrester right out in front, went over the top of a parapet and headlong at the crest of the hill. The [Germans] fled.' http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/crete/day3.htm And this is an account from the film's forum: "All of my family was involved in the invasion and i have vast knowledge of the atmosphere ,attitude and events.Even my grandmother who died earlier this year at the age of 104 years was at the parachute landing near Hania collecting the guns of the Germans as my grandfather was stabbing them with his pitch fork.To explain the passion of the Cretans at one stage my grandfather slapped my grandmother because she got tired and hesitated in ordering her son my uncle to stab the Germans in the throat after my grandfather pitch-forked them.He was 14 years of age.To many this might sound barbaric but we are taught to be humble,honest,loving people whoever if the time arises we never forget or lose our passion of our defensive nature.Also i have met Australians that my families were hiding and how they were contacting Cairo through the radio which was hidden in our farm.The killing of the Greek colaborators,who betrayed their people even to this day their children have a mark on their name.Thank You..RegardsEmmanuel Maragoudakis " It is one of the most unknown yet very bloody and savage battles of WWII where all parts fought very valiantly,both Allies and Germans and is not by accident the place that had the most atrocities from the Germans after the Allied retreat,because exactly of the high casualties and the persistence of the resistance.The Cretan resistance under British leadership is the only case of successful kidnapping of the German general (the commander of the island) during WWII.He was shipped to Egypt. From the German site: The cost to the Germans of Operation Merkur was high. Of the 22,000 men committed for the operation approximately 6,000 were casualties. Key figures killed during the battle: Generalleutnant Süssmann, Major Braun, Major Scherber, and Oberleutnant van Plessen. The mountain troops lost 20 officers and 305 other ranks, killed in action; the missing-most of them drowned when the Royal Navy sunk the boats transporting them, numbered 18 officers and 488 other ranks. Of the nearly 500 transport aircraft involved, 271 had been lost. The British and Dominion casualties were 1.742 killed, 1,737 wounded and 11,835 taken prisoner. For the Royal Navy the battle cost the Mediterranean fleet: three cruisers and six destroyers sunk; one aircraft carrier and three battleships, and six cruisers and nine destroyers-damaged. Over 2,000 men killed and almost 500 wounded.