[Skybird]

Friscobay, I focusse don where you said "However, within the wider world of public and even private association and discourse , individuals are not protected from ''speech which offends''. It does not enter either into realms of ''space'' or ''time''. I made clear that the olublic space is not unpossessed, but is owned by somebody, is claimed by somebody, which is the state. And that the state therefore rules as claimed owner of the place what goes and what not. Therefore, free speech finds its lkmits in the need that if you use it, you still need to possess the space and the time to pratcice it, or must be given allowance by the owner to use it by leasing the opporuntiy in space and time. And you are given that byx the state - or not. The state is a monopolist in making the rules as he likes them. First problem. Second problem is that I do not automatically accept anymore the state being called the protector of the communal interest. It is not, but a tool of power abused by the few.
Regarding the first problem, you can see the problem in Turkey currently, with Erdoghan switching on and off internet services as it serves his interests, and punishing lawyers, polcie ninvestigators and state attorney doing research against him and his clan. In the West, censorship and limiting free speech usually it is done more subtle and secretive, not so much by obvious force that could be fingerprinted and condemned easily, but by shifting the censor into the thinking of people, and anchoring it in redesigning the meaning of words, manipulating public opinion and media reports, mobilising this by now terrifying thing called "solidarity" and "public interest" (like "national security" can gag just anything in the US). And what's even worse: these things spread like a pandemic. You must not ban free speech explcitly. Eroding the fundaments of the ability to make use for it and on issues that are indeed important, works even better, for it is more difficult to see and thus less easy to brandmark it as such, not to mention to fight back.

A standard tactic in cults and sects like the Moon sect as just one example is to brake resistance and free will of newcomers by complimenting them "to death", so to speak. They are never left alone, they are treated with kindness no matter what, they are always helped, they are always given a helping hand. The point is that this is done to such extreme that they never are not helped and never are not being met with kindness. You reach out for something - they are faster and give it to you. You want to go somewhere - they show you all the way. You wish for something - they just briung in the fulfillment of your wishes. You lose the ability of doing yourself becasue you are systemtically prevented form doing yourself. That is becasue you do not see the need to do yourself, and the silent aggression you maybe feel after some time is met with disbelief and consternation - has not everybody been so kind to you? Has not any wish been read from your lips? Haven'T you been met with nothign but friendliness, and meeting mkany freinds you coinstantly are around?

Formally, legally, nothing of that is limiting you, preventing you, hindering you. But of course, it does limit you, it does prevent you, it does hinder you. That's why it is being done, and believe me: it works damn well with most people exposed to this brainwashing. It works frighteningly well.

That is just one example of how you could erode freedom without formally eroding freedom. The anonymous pressure of the group, social standards, the constant sprinkling by media using key terms and ideas over and over again, legal standards, goals and views inculcated by the education system. Brute force works well. Hitler, Stalin, North Korea proved that beyond doubt. But the subtle methods I tried to hint at, are working better, and are much more difficult to resist to, to be identified, to be fought against. Doing so often leads to situations where the victims to whose help you come are turning against you, and see malice only where indeed your intention was to help and to free them. That is why these methods make Hitler, Stalin and North Korea and their use of brute force the dilletantees.