[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

There are American's who would disagree with that assessment, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a domestic debate on the subject at all.

True that, still the history of America is inextricably linked with the gun, Colt, Smith and Wessen, Winchester, household names. Take the gun out of America...it just wouldn't seem right.

Here I would like to state something that I've learned years ago. We are all products of our environment. Every one of us. How we are, how we think, how we perceive things, is molded into shape by our daily lives. On that note, I think as environments change, so do people, but I wonder if the overall "molding" is cumulative. Anyway.. just a tangent there.

Not going to disagree at all. Spot on in my opinion.

If you want a weapon for defense (IE: to save life and limb), I would argue you'd want the weapon that would greatest maximize your chances of success and survival, would you not?

This is true, and ultimately the problem lies with the fleshy bit that's holding the gun. If someone is going to kill someone else, they'd better be damned sure that their life is in danger...and how do you make damn sure?
This, admittedly, is a problem as old as weaponry itself, an old English poem from around the English Civil War has the phrase:

The blood that was spilt, sir, Hath gain'd all the gilt, sir; Thus have you seen me run my Sword up to the hilt, sir.

Probably no more then any other weapon. In a situation where you find yourself stumbling around in the dark (which i think stupid) with a knife, or club, is no different then a gun. Regardless of choice of weapon, you can't see who's in front of you. Mistakes can be made.

True. I'd wager that the ease of use to damage inflicted ratio is a bit askew with weapons other than knives or guns.

Not necessarily true. It depends on what you choose to load the gun with. Options include your standard "Ball" ammunition. Hollow points, which do as you describe, or Less than lethal ammunition. See here:

Good point. I guess it also depends on where you get hit. Same with a knife.

Ok this is just my opinion, and i'm being very general here...
The thing about guns to an American, is that they are not just guns. Yes they are weapons, but they are a lot more then that. I could if i spent the time, write an essay on this, but being very brief (and i'll probably overlook something as a result), guns are symbolic of history, tradition, individualism, independence, self reliance, citizenship, and that most often overused word, freedom. All things greatly valued in our culture.

Yup, and someone who isn't an American will really struggle to understand this. I struggle, but I respect that, however I think that as time goes on, there is going to have to be a long hard look at how firearms interact with American society and vice versa, because society in itself has changed dramatically since the Second Amendment was drawn up. Does this mean that guns need to go? Not at all, but there is two great immobile forces locking horns here and eventually something is going to give.

Amazingly Maw Zedong may have said it best, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." The American people keeping and bearing arms is highly symbolic that ultimately the political power in this country rests within "We the people". (Or at least it should ) Our country never had a Monarchy of any sort, and was established as a Constitutional Republic with Democratic tendencies. I think you may agree that symbolism can be a powerful thing, so to ask an American to give up their guns, is in fact, asking A LOT.

Mao may have been ruthlessly genocidal, but he was a shrewd person, he knew how power worked, how to get it, keep it, and exploit it.
The problem I think that America will find in the 21st century is that whilst the American people have political power in their guns, the government that they keep those guns to defend from has much bigger guns and much more power if it chooses to use it. Of course, if the entire populace rose up, then that would be something different, but we all know that nothing is ever unanimous.

When Charlton Heston (infamously in progressive circles) held up a reproduction musket and said, "from my cold dead hands", it' wasn't just a gun he holding up in the air, but an object that symbolizes many things valued.

YOU BLEW IT UP! No...wait...

I know that you are non-partisan Ducimus, and I respect you for that, but I still wonder how vocal the current crowds who fear the loss of their freedoms will be under a differently aligned President. Still, time will tell.