SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

CaptBones · 12-09-13, 06:52 PM

AD - Yes, you are correct. As SS noted, backing down is normal and is the only good method to slow or stop the ship or boat in a reasonable distance; doing so can be done either surfaced or submerged. Running astern is OK in certain circumstances when surfaced, but you would never - ever - run astern submerged. IIRC, Morton "backed down" while diving to avoid an attacking aircraft on his first patrol as CO of "Wahoo", but that did not bring the boat to have stern-way on, it merely made the stern "squat" to fix a bad situation caused by the stern planes jamming at the start of the dive. Those of you who have read Dick O’Kane’s book “WAHOO” (my copy was autographed by the author while we sat down to have a cup of coffee, the third time I had the pleasure of meeting and talking to RADM O’Kane) should recall that they jammed the rudder when "Wahoo" tried to run at full speed astern, on the surface, to get into a good firing position on a tanker during that same first patrol with Morton in Command. Similar to the rudder(s), the planes are equipped with mechanical stops and any amount of sternway could put hydrodynamic forces on the planes that could easily overcome the hydraulic rams and jam the planes in a very undesirable position. The planes and rudder(s) are designed to be balanced when running ahead; running astern puts water flow around them that soundly defeats that design feature. Now, having said that, if you're "in extremis" in a tactical situation, you throw the book away and improvise as needed to carry out the mission (and survive!).

Hey SS...I knew the Brinkley Bass...one of my old shipmates did his Mid'n 1st Cl. cruise in DD-887 during the summer of 1970 and she participated in a few exercises in the NW and Hawaiian OP Areas in the early 70's. Not a really "small world" situation, but we're certainly within three degrees of separation!

Aktungbby - If I could get a half-barrel of Hamm's around here, I'd run it down to the Bay Area and we'd do the counseling on our way out through the Golden Gate.

12-09-13, 06:52 PM	#3
CaptBones The Old Man Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Rockton, IL Posts: 281 Downloads: 208 Uploads: 0	Yes...no...maybe... AD - Yes, you are correct. As SS noted, backing down is normal and is the only good method to slow or stop the ship or boat in a reasonable distance; doing so can be done either surfaced or submerged. Running astern is OK in certain circumstances when surfaced, but you would never - ever - run astern submerged. IIRC, Morton "backed down" while diving to avoid an attacking aircraft on his first patrol as CO of "Wahoo", but that did not bring the boat to have stern-way on, it merely made the stern "squat" to fix a bad situation caused by the stern planes jamming at the start of the dive. Those of you who have read Dick O’Kane’s book “WAHOO” (my copy was autographed by the author while we sat down to have a cup of coffee, the third time I had the pleasure of meeting and talking to RADM O’Kane) should recall that they jammed the rudder when "Wahoo" tried to run at full speed astern, on the surface, to get into a good firing position on a tanker during that same first patrol with Morton in Command. Similar to the rudder(s), the planes are equipped with mechanical stops and any amount of sternway could put hydrodynamic forces on the planes that could easily overcome the hydraulic rams and jam the planes in a very undesirable position. The planes and rudder(s) are designed to be balanced when running ahead; running astern puts water flow around them that soundly defeats that design feature. Now, having said that, if you're "in extremis" in a tactical situation, you throw the book away and improvise as needed to carry out the mission (and survive!). Hey SS...I knew the Brinkley Bass...one of my old shipmates did his Mid'n 1st Cl. cruise in DD-887 during the summer of 1970 and she participated in a few exercises in the NW and Hawaiian OP Areas in the early 70's. Not a really "small world" situation, but we're certainly within three degrees of separation! Aktungbby - If I could get a half-barrel of Hamm's around here, I'd run it down to the Bay Area and we'd do the counseling on our way out through the Golden Gate.